It’s our annual check-in with Becks Quirk, while Kris is recovering from Women’s Week in P-town! Becks and Tara talk about what’s changed in the last year, where they’re at, what keeps them motivated, as well as Becks’s reflections after Banned Books Week.
Official Recommendations
From Becks: Every Step She Takes by Alison Cochrun
In keeping with the annual nature of her visits, Becks’s official recommendation this week is another Alison Cochrun audiobook, Every Step She Takes. A bout of turbulence provokes Sadie into coming out and sharing her deepest secrets with her seat companion, Mal, only to learn they’re both joining the same tour of Camino de Santiago in Portugal. Becks is a sucker for physical journeys that exhaust the body and mind, leading to revelations and change.
From Tara: Ladies in Hating by Alexandra Vasti
Tara’s official recommendation this week is Ladies in Hating by Alexandra Vasti. Lady Georgiana Cleeve is the author of many popular novels, which helps her support herself and her mother. When Lady Darling’s books are equally popular and have details that are eerily similar to Georgiana’s own books, Georgiana knows she has to unmask Lady Darling. She’s in for the shock of her life when Lady Darling ends up being none other than Georgiana’s teenage crush. Tara loved the emotional journeys in this one and how it plays with conventions from gothic novels.
Works/People Discussed
- Banned Books Week
- Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic by Alison Bechdel (recommended in QR 064)
- Gender Queer: A Memoir by Maia Kobabe (recommended in QR 057)
- Flamer by Mike Curato
- They Came from Below by L Dreamer
- After All: A Sapphic Romance (Latitude & Longing Book 3) by Bryce Oakley
- Olive Oil and White Bread by Georgia Beers
- The Shape of You by Georgia Beers
- RuPaul’s Drag Race UK (BBC Three, BBC One)
- Hades 2 (Supergiant Games)
- Iceberg by Gun Brooke
- Course of Action by Gun Brooke
- Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit
- Meditations in an Emergency – Essays by Rebecca Solnit
- The Fortune Hunter’s Guide to Love by Emma-Claire Sunday
- Heather Rose Jones
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Transcript
>> Tara Scott: Welcome to Queerly Recommended, the podcast where we recommend queer books, films, TV shows and more. I’m Tara Scott and I review sapphic fiction at the Lesbian Review and Smart Bitches Trashy Books. And this week I’m recommending a recently released historical romance. Kris Bryant, my partner in crime over here, is out this week because this is actually being recorded while she is on her way home from Women’s Week in Provincetown, where it sounds like she had an awesome time and hopefully we’ll hear about it next time. So I am thrilled to be joined today by friend of the pod, Becks Quirk. Welcome, Becks.
>> Becks Quirk: Hey, Tara. Nice to see you. I would say, same bad time, same bad channel.
>> Tara Scott: It’s two years running now, right? Oh, was it after P-town last year?
>> Becks Quirk: It was. Kris was at P-town last year. So Kris, lovingly I appreciate you and I get to hang out with Tara when you’re in Provincetown. So I guess maybe we’ll see each other again in 2026.
>> Tara Scott: Tara, right? It works out okay. So we’re recording on October 19th.
I think it was about a week ago that Banned Books Week happened and you were doing a whole bunch of work, I think behind the scenes for a whole bunch of people I know. Like we shared a graphic about it that you made and so a lot of the stuff that you were making had stats just like things for people to know so we could get the word out. What are your reflections coming off of all that work on Banned Books Week?
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah, I guess. You know that caveat every time that I speak only for myself, even though I have the privilege of being the Director of Outreach for GCLS.
>> Becks Quirk: If I say anything problematic, that’s Becks talking. And if I say anything uplifting, that’s definitely me speaking on behalf of the org so everybody could give that grace. That would be helpful.
>> Becks Quirk: So there is this unique opportunity. We as GCLS, and then me as Becks, are trying to partner more with more orgs as we go forward. The same time you and I talked last year it was like, we really hope the election goes the way we want it to. And this year we’re having conversations about like, how do we unify so we don’t get destroyed because things happened. And I’m going to try to stay as PC as possible in the next five minutes. But in trying to figure out, like, we have this amazing group of people and everybody’s really interested in, like, how do we actively stand up and fight in a way that amplifies sapphic work. How do we show up and advocate for each other without being in our own bubbles all the time? So partnering with SAS this time was one of those ways. And I have been a. I don’t want to say a fan. That sounds like weird language, but the American Libraries Associations work on Banned Books Week. And then M PEN America, which does a lot of the stats for everybody, has been really important to me. I, you know, spent a lot of college actually trying to work my way through the most banned books of the 1990s, which is the first decade long period we have, because a lot of those books weren’t in my high school library. They weren’t in the parish I grew up. Louisiana has parishes, though. people in other places will know, them as counties.
>> Tara Scott: oh, okay. Thank you for that. I was like, I thought you were talking about church parishes.
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah. So I do want to say I grew up in the one state that has parishes instead of counties. in our parish, I grew up in Vernon Parish, or lived in Vernon Parish, I should say. did not have a lot of these books. So there was a component of me, when I was also figuring out my own voice, of, like, what were people trying to hide from me and why or what did they not think I was intelligent or mature enough to read? And in navigating kind of what banned books look like, I did the very thing for why they try to ban them. I saw myself, I saw my peers. I saw the people I wanted to grow up to be or I wanted to be around. And what does that look like? So for the last couple decades, I’ve been staying with that. And we talk all the time. And I think you and I talked a lot last time we did this about, like, the threats to access to this. Right. If we go digital and everything can get turned off, what happens? So the conversation became a lot more involved internally. And I have to give the biggest of shout outs to Avery Brooks here, because Avery was really one of those intellectual driving forces that did this. And then J.J. hill compounded and just made it that much more of a richer story. But what happened if we actively work together to say, hey, as far as we know, our immediate community’s books are not banned yet, but we realize the bannings are happening, the censorship is happening, all of us are at threat. And even if ours aren’t and won’t be, how do we actively say we know that these other ones should also not be? And we stand against that, both to protect our own voice, but to Amplify the fact that, you know, one in every four books banned in the U.S. as of 2324, there’s new stats out that we’re working with. One in every four were LGBTQ centered or had a character. One in 10 had somebody with disability. Over 30% featured somebody of color. And when you hear those numbers and you think about the diversity and the authenticity that makes it such a rich community, it is that honesty. It is that authenticity that is being attacked regularly. And we actively are going to take up spaces on the Internet and say, hey, no, not on our watch, not going forward. And we’re going to be loud in our own unique ways. What we got to do with GCLS is people were able to amplify their novels or novels they were reading, which is great, right? Let’s get them out there.
>> Tara Scott: Absolutely.
>> Becks Quirk: So we were able to take these tropes or these things that people are actively going after and saying, hey, my novel has it too. It’s not currently banned. Also, come for me. We’re all fighting in this together. And if you do like it, don’t forget that. For example, like, Perks of Being the Wallflower, which has been banned since I was a kid, a teenager. It’s still on the list. Right. And for me, that’s one of those books I hold dear. It has a line in it. I’m both happy and sad and still trying to figure out how that could be. And that’s kind of. You know, that was the first time that I saw you could contain multitudes of just all your feelings at once and still choosing to try to wake up the next day. And that had a powerful influence. That’s why I get to talk to you. Right. I’m still here because I saw the messiness of humanity in novels. And as we worked together throughout this event, we started seeing so many similarities even between the novels. Outside of tropes and outside of fears. There was very much this I wrote because I had something to say so somebody else wouldn’t feel alone. And that’s. That’s the loudest thing I’ve taken back from this campaign.
>> Tara Scott: I think that’s amazing. And also, interestingly, it’s going to connect, later on to my official recommendation, because there is a theme in there.
But I will say, like, I. I can’t even remember what we talked about last year. I probably should have re. Listened to the episode. But I suspect, you know, we. And we’ve definitely even just personally, if not during that episode, talked about and people who have listened to, you know, lots of episodes have heard me talk about the context in which I grew up. This like, very baptist. Very particular type of worldview in the 90s about, like, what is real and what is okay. And I mean, the. Even the possibility of being queer didn’t exist to me. And then seeing in my kids generation how different it is. And again, it depends on the family. It really comes down to, like, what are the possibilities presented in a family? Because my kids have come across some extremely homophobic kids at school.
>> Becks Quirk: Ah.
>> Tara Scott: Which really, when the kids defend themselves, say my religion. But otherwise, it’s just, it’s. It’s not as big a deal for a lot of these kids because, you know, they have parents who will say, well, you know, you’re gonna love whoever you’re gonna love or you’re gonna be whoever you’re gonna be. And they do get to see some of that reflected sometimes in media. It’s so important and we can’t take it for granted or treat it as solved when there are people making laws and having access to media decisions that say the very existence of a queer person in a work makes it pornography. It’s not like. And we also can’t assume, for those of us who are outside of the US we can’t assume that this is only an American thing. I mean, I’ve talked about how here in Alberta, you know, they. It was kind of beautiful, though. There was this real, malicious compliance. And it was funny. Our premier, who’s kind of like a governor, she called it vicious compliance. And I like that she got it wrong. Like, fuck her, I hate her. But they put out this kind of overly vague language in the legislation. So some librarians in Edmonton put out a list of, Well, this is what it means. These are the books that would get categorized under there. And so, yes, it included some of the usual suspects of queer literature, but it meant that, you know, the Handmaid’s Tale was there and 1984 was on there, and there were some other just like, classic literary works. And so Margaret Atwood found out about it and had some things to say, as she is wont to do. And so they ended up scaling it back to graphic novels. And do I think that’s great? No, obviously not. And again, it’s the same usual suspects and, and even including some that we’ve covered. So, you know, I. I talked about this recently. Fun Home was. Is banned in schools in Alberta. Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe is banned in Alberta. I wish you all could see Becks is holding up the books as I need to. Yeah, the. The one that I haven’t read yet, I need to read. that’s also banned. Is also banned all over the US Called Flamer.
>> Becks Quirk: Oh, I have Flamer, but I have a digital copy on my, on my large tablet. But yeah, Tara and I can see each other on camera. So Tara, everything here over is just queer graphic novels. Love it. So. Yeah.
>> Tara Scott: Love it. So yeah, I think we can’t take it for granted and especially because there’s been this push to like digitize your libraries. And I am, just as bad. I’ve gotten rid of most of my physical books. I do have copy. I do have physical copies of all of my favorite, favorite, favorite. Like, if I were to not be able to read this Sapphic book again, I would be genuinely devastated. I have physical copies of all those because I don’t trust at some point that Amazon’s not gonna fold to something. I mean, we are recording this the day after the no Kings protests which turned out, isn’t it more people than have ever protested in the US for anything ever.
>> Becks Quirk: You probably are even better on the stats than me. But I know when it came to what the assumed number of participants were gonna be, even here in Denver, it was eclipsed by a significant percentage. And as far as I’ve seen this morning, there was no sign of any harm, injury, anything that went awry at any organization with that many more people. There was a lot of community care and community, like cleanup that happened with some no Kings protests as well. It’s interesting like to have this conversation and kind of talk about this juxtaposition of. And I’m going to use this. I’m going to use the banned books actually, because I won’t call out who, but somebody I trust very much sent me a message and they’re like, you know, is this just. Are you just piggybacking on something else and you’re just kind of flagging a non issue and you’re just trying to like ride adjacent attention. And I sat in it for a while because, you know, the American Library association bust their ass on this project every year. And Pen America does really good research. And you know, I. My job is about figuring out how to get your product in front of people by using things that work. So, I can, I can. I genuinely think it came from a, a real place of thought.
But there is this thing that I think we do really loudly in our community that I also feel has to be combated which is it already exists, so don’t do it too. Instead of it exists, how can you amplify it? And what audiences do you have that can introduce to the ones who don’t know it already exists and vice versa. You have this audience, melt happens. People stop following things. If you can name one social media creator that you followed every post, everything for at least 10 years or longer, and you’ve never missed anything. Please share with me. But like, I mean, I’ve been following the vlog brothers since like 2007. 8, and God knows I have not watched every John and Hank video in my life. Right. But I still check in occasionally. I think there’s this component of if we are amplifying united missions of protecting our community, is it piggybacking or is it similar to like, no kings and coming together as a country in your respective cities or provinces or wherever you are and saying, not on our watch, even here. And I feel that the queer community does that quite a bit. Where like, we create. We feel like we have to create our own version of something instead of there is this foundation that was laid with resources that are going to be harder for us to acquire. How do we honor where it came from? Like Avery and JJ and I put Pen America and American Library on any stat graph based on where it was. Give the person who did the work the credit and then say, yes and. And what power exists in that? And yeah, and anybody who’s done improv or is a fan of anything through like, Dropout TV is very familiar with the yes and component. But I do think that that’s kind of where we’re going to be able to survive the compassion fatigue, where we’re going to be able to keep going when, like, the days are just like. It’s just announcement after announcement after announcement and all of us feel beaten up. What happens if instead of spending all that energy to recreate the. The wheel, we instead are like, okay, well, how do we fit more people in the wagon and keep moving forward?
>> Tara Scott: Yes.
>> Becks Quirk: You know, that was really kind of enticing to watch. Over 300 graphics went across, you know, the meta platforms and Twitter and Blue sky and some other spaces. We know it went across at least three continents. I believe it was four. I’m waiting to confirm that somebody posted in South Africa on one of the platforms. But, you know, four continents minimum, which is really exciting to think about in hindsight of kind of where that reach was. And then when we think about graphics. Yeah, you know, we use some temp, like, canva templates, and we updated them to really be conducive to our drive. But also, that’s what canvas fricking for. Like, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not a designer. If you want design, do not come to me. I am an accident. Like, I, execute things, I research things. But there are people who get paid for the aesthetic. I am not one.
>> Tara Scott: Tara.
>> Becks Quirk: I think I’ve worn like, the same color shirt on every podcast we’ve ever done. Like, that’s just not my lane.
>> Tara Scott: That’s a great color. Let’s go.
>> Becks Quirk: The last time we talked, we talked about, like, how we’re going to have to figure out to be united to get through this. And what’s been really fascinating since a year ago to today is there’s still kind of that jealousy and envy that ensues. Right. That’s normal. It’s a human emotion.
>> Becks Quirk: But there is a little bit more of, like, if we don’t all make it, which one does? And where do I put my investment? Instead of, what happens if we all rally together and just fight through the storm?
>> Tara Scott: Yeah.
>> Becks Quirk: And then wherever we’re left standing at the end, that’s what we compound on Uniquely. Again, I genuinely feel we’re going to lose more of our community if we don’t start doing more of these cross. Right. Like, I will tell anybody. Listen to Queerly Recommended. Go get some recs there. Go to Sapphic World book clubs, book club groups. Make sure you check in with sas, which SASS can talk about things I can’t talk about as a GCLS representative because we’re a 501c3. And where being queer is inherently political, we are under a guise, under a nonprofit umbrella where I can’t have a stance in that seat out loud. Now me backs off camera, off mic. Talk to me any day. Right. So what happens if we bring in those people who can have those conversations in a way that keeps it moving? Instead of saying, well, I can’t be present, go find it somewhere else. And then you get lost along the way. The ADHD gets in the way. Life gets in the way. You didn’t find them. You spelled it wrong. And it ended up on a scary part of the Internet. Like, I, I think I really kind of want to volley this to you if you’re open to it. There are a lot of different buckets that have that common thread. Right. There’s this common thread of amplifying stories and creators, which is one reason I’m as platonically madly in love with you as possible. But, like, you. You kind of weave these together, but I never really hear you express anything other than, oh, there’s also this option for you. How do you get past kind of the competitive nature that is E commerce or E Engagement and make it as holistic as you have? I’m still trying to learn that.
>> Tara Scott: Personally, I’m not sure I fully understand the question, but I’m going to take my best stab and then you tell me if I landed or you can try to get it another.
>> Becks Quirk: Well, like, you. You do, like, really recommended. And you do, like, you know, like, Smart girls, Trashy books.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, the smart, trashy.
>> Becks Quirk: Thank you. Smart, Trashy Books I’m Not Trying to Be. And The Lesbian Review and all these other things which in theory are not in competition with each other, but they are kind of in competition with each other for views, clicks, and engagement. And for you, it’s just like, you work on multiple platforms, right? So, like, how do you navigate both what you give to each platform? Do you prioritize one or another for certain needs, and then also kind of navigating the audiences who meet you based on that creative sphere? Right. Smart. But just Trashy Books is going to have a very different voice than kind of you and Kris sharing kind of some authenticity at a different level. Right. M. So. So how does that work for you?
>> Tara Scott: So there was a point at which, like, when I was in my peak and reviewing the most and all that. So I was. Because I started at the lesbian review, and then I ended up podcasting because of that. I had my old show, and then I was recruited to review at Curve magazine. And then somebody who was on the board at Lambda Literary recruited me to review there. And then there was a total mishap with a review. I’m trying to remember if it was Curve or if it was Lambda Literary, but I had a review that wouldn’t fit at The Lesbian Review. Because of all the places I’ve ever reviewed at, it’s the only one that had a highly structured template. So that it’s like, here’s. You got to write your own little synopsis. And then there’s a section for the writing style, a section for some of the stuff isn’t there anymore. There used to be one, I think, for the characters or something like that. Anyway, so it wasn’t like I could just take it and say, hey, Sheena, do you want it? And so I just, on a whim, submitted it as a guest review proposal for Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. And Sarah, my boss over there, was like, yeah, absolutely. And then that, you know, So I think what helped me do it at that point was uncontrolled ADHD that I didn’t know that I had.
>> Becks Quirk: I stand by. It’s your superpower. I’m envious.
>> Tara Scott: I cannot do the volume of reading and reviewing that I was doing at the time. Once I started controlling my ADHD via medication, I think that was part of why I largely dropped off of reading for about a year, year and a half, and I had to relearn how to read, and I had to relearn how to review. But the thing that always made it possible and the thing that continues to make it possible even though, you know, the number of places that I’ll send reviews to has cut in half, and I’m probably never going to go back to reviewing, you know, one to three books a week, is I was always clear on my personal mandate. Why was I doing this? Why was this important? And it was true for the podcasting, even in the old format when I was interviewing authors. The mandate is also similar to what I have for, like, why I do queerly recommended. And it’s that I came to understand my queerness through fiction. You know, I just said a little while ago, I grew up in the kind of context where I didn’t think it was possible, it wasn’t an option. And it was only because I found Sapphic romances and started reading them. And then in, you know, starting to review. And, like, it really started with Sheena because I sent her a tweet one day and I was like, you should review. I forget which book. I even said. And she said, you should review it. And I couldn’t because I proofread that book because I was a proofreader at BSB back then. But I suggested a different book. And realizing that, like, I could take this energy that I felt coming out of books, which, again, uncontrolled adhd, there was a lot of it, like, so much. I would finish a book and I’d be like, my feelings, my thoughts, I gotta put them somewhere. And I didn’t have book friends at the time, which now I have with you and our other friend, among other people, having that place to put that energy, but also knowing that if I can help somebody find books that they love, it might help them learn something about themselves, or it might help them honor something or connect more, even if they do know that about themselves, maybe the rest of the people in their life Aren’t inclined to honor it. Or maybe they just want comfort reading.
I mean, I would say it’s really shifted, though, over the years. In the early days, it was about helping people connect with the books that might help them find themselves to. Now it’s about helping people connect with the books where they might find comfort. Because the world sucks. especially if you’re queer right now. There’s a lot of joy. There’s still a lot of joy that exists, but it’s not great when you have people in positions of power saying that they’re coming after people like you or your kids and also trying to help people connect with books that, like, I really love, that I’m hopeful other people will really love, because it will help drive demand for those books. Because we need. Frankly, we need people to buy queer books to get them out from their library, to give them to their friends and family, to shout them from the rooftops. Like, we need to prove that this is something that people love and want to keep and is worth fighting for. So that’s kind of the. That’s the evolution of all that for me.
>> Becks Quirk: No notes. I could listen to you forever.
>> Tara Scott: And you nearly did because I went on for.
>> Becks Quirk: No, no, I think, and I do this. I. We talk similarly. We’re either like bad podcast, where we talk on top of each other and hear each other while we’re talking, which is not good for audiences, or I think we both create that space. I wish everybody had the opportunity to talk to Tara the way I do. your lives would be so much richer. But listening to this podcast is a damn good start to get there. So keep doing it. I’m with you fully. I think the ability to judge something comes with access to a lot of it or a closed mind. And if you have a closed mind, you’re not going to really consume our creative people and our community’s work anyway. So I’m not too worried about you. Sorry to be that blunt, but they’re not listening. No, that’s great. Like, perfect point. And I think if you have, a lot of opinions about how somebody spoke about something or how it was produced online or what the design looked like, it means you’ve been exposed to a lot of it and you’re comparing it to something else. And at that point, like, great, you have a favorite, stick with it. And there’s other audiences coming in. Right. I feel that I’ve unfairly received accolades for this banned book. Yes, I did labor. I think I was just the person who was like, I can be the center point and then let’s figure out what other people are excited to do. I don’t want to call anybody, I don’t want to share anything by name without that person’s permission. I forgot to ask before the podcast, but one of the people who participated had expressed like, this is one of the few things I’ve done in a while where my ADHD wasn’t a negative. Like, for me, hyper fixating on this for an hour and then not talking to somebody for a while and then posting, you know, days later really worked for, like how my life works. And I feel so often, specifically people assigned female at birth or women identified, people have to like, have everything kind of structured and executed either for men who take credit or things that don’t happen. And I think within our own community, it’s kind of a hindrance. Like, okay, here’s the full outline. We have to follow it to the T. Instead of here is the border framework and four or five pieces can fit in here, depending on who lays the piece. So part of, I guess it’s not great to be on a podcast where you wanted to talk about this and I’m being so cautious about it, is I just think that I continue to be a megaphone here. But this was really a project driven by so many people who are like, this is a bite sized chunk I can handle at this moment due to being a parent or due to, big feelings or due to the way my neuro spicy works or due to the way my depression works, which is my personal story, or due to work or a day that ends in Y that has whatever. I can bite off reposting, I can bite off doing my own graphic. I can bite off dropping in mine. I can bite off emailing you and asking you to make it and that ability and that access to say, we have seven days of all of us saying out loud together, it’s not okay that it’s happening. We stand against why it’s being done and we will continue to fight going forward. Which is this next step, right?
>> Tara Scott: Yeah.
>> Becks Quirk: Those bite sized chunks led to why we had more engagement with this than we do with some things. There was also an invitation for people to come with what most excited them. If it was promoting their own work or promoting a work that they loved or me. When I emailed you and Kris, I’m like, I really want people to know about your podcast. Can I please do a graphic?
>> Tara Scott: Well, and that was awesome because like, I, I’m not gonna build something In Canva. You really can’t. Can I do with it? Yes, please. Because that made it very easy to take the graphic and you gave us a few options and we, you, know, we agreed on the one that we liked the best and then just post it. That’s it. But it was still doing something, it.
>> Becks Quirk: Was still participating and perfection was kind of off the table. Again, I’m not a designer. I think I sent you all four or five of them and I’m like, any of these work, we can edit them. But I do think that you and Kris and a number of other people who, you know, I’m going to always shout out JJ and Avery. But there were other participants who haven’t, said that I can share their name. So I have to be a little careful. The idea of it being like all the kerning being correct and the placement being perfect, none of us cared enough, which meant that things were being executed. And I think so often, so many of us are under the pressure of will it sell or will it be engaged with? Will it be liked? Instead of. Momentum is its own force of power. And it doesn’t have to be perfect. And showing our community it doesn’t have to be perfect invites more participation.
>> Becks Quirk: Now don’t get me wrong, you have a bad book cover. A lot of people are secretly talking about it, including Tara and I, off camera. Like there’s other things of like design that come into play when you’re trying to sell your stuff. But when it comes to community engagement and this type of momentum, it does not matter at that. The data shows it. We, we can tell you both in our careers, it doesn’t matter. But I understand authors have been conditioned to know that everything they do can be part of their branding. And that can be a little bit.
>> Tara Scott: Much to be fair. If an author puts out a book and the COVID is bad most of the time, and especially if they’re with a publishing company, what we’re saying is, oh my God. Oh no. I’m so sorry. I feel so bad. They deserve so much better.
>> Becks Quirk: And I think what hurts is like, we all know that the text is going to be like really fucking powerful and wonderful and the story is going to be amazing. But we’ve read enough novels that we don’t necessarily ingest covers the same way that like a first time consumer or a new consumer would. And what I’m trying to say is like, I think perfectionism gets in the way of a lot of really good work. But also I understand in our industry There is a certain level of, like, at least this level that has to exist.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah, we gotta forgive ourselves to a certain extent. Well, and I do think too, like, expecting perfectionism from oneself and saying that if. If it can’t be perfect, I’m not gonna do it does hold a lot of people back from participating in movements and organizing. And, you know, back when Trump was elected, I saw a lot of people wondering, well, like, what can I do? What should I do? And the people with, like, long histories of organizing all said, it doesn’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to, nor should you go it alone. Pick your issue. Pick one issue, no more than two. Figure out what it is that you can do and do that thing. And maybe it’s as simple. You know, there were some people who went out to rallies yesterday and passed out water. That might not feel like a lot, but. But it’s still something. It’s. It’s still important. And that, you know, you don’t have to build anything from the ground up. No matter what issue you care about, there is probably an organization that’s working on it. So how can you support them? Is it financially? Is it telling other people about it? Is it, like, literally showing up and volunteering? Like, there’s got to be something? And so I think in our case, you know, you say that what you did wasn’t that big, but, like, it doesn’t matter because none of it has to be that big. The important thing is the doing it together.
>> Becks Quirk: Fully agree. and had SASS and SASS’s community not been involved, this could have been a really small echo chamber. Candidly, whatever you think the board of GCLS does, I promise, if you multiply it by three, it’s still less than what they do. So many of us are in these volunteer positions where the mission and the drive to protect our people and to amplify our stories is really what drives us to invest time. And a lot of it is done when it’s not seen. You know, and there is a lot of discourse, I think, in the community to make sure we’re being as thoughtful as possible and nobody’s being left out of the table. And there’s enough chairs for everybody. And sometimes in that work, that comes with a fatigue that then stops the process from moving forward. And that work has to still exist. So when you invite more people in and you can divide that labor need, it just changes the entire momentum of a situation. And I’m really. Me. Becks is just really sitting in asking for help. Is Not a weakness. It’s a true sign of strength and care. And that has been something that I’ve worked on for a long time. My therapist probably has a wing of their house because of it.
>> Tara Scott: Good for them.
>> Becks Quirk: Good for them.
>> Tara Scott: Yay.
>> Becks Quirk: I read and you own. That’s great.
>> Tara Scott: Uh-huh.
>> Becks Quirk: But there is a. There is this thing. And again, I think being surrounded by strong queer people and women, and I say it in that way because so many of our community members are gender diverse and I don’t ever want to leave anybody off the table. And I come from a shit ton of cis privilege, so I always have to clock myself. And I appreciate you, Tara, to make, sure that I don’t say anything. But, you know, there is this component of, hey, I’m really overwhelmed and I could really use some support. And then you show back up. You don’t make them do all the work. You can’t do that. That then is a different problem. But, like, that’s not the way I would do it. But I asked for help and that way is really good too. Let me not micromanage that. Let me reset and come back to the table.
>> Becks Quirk: There’s more of that type of dialogue happening. You know, the big conversation Avery and I are having right now is we have momentum we haven’t had in a while. How do we keep building on it? Right. Is it lightning in our bottle or can we keep having a conversation on top? And this is where a lot of things start to fall apart. So the conversation we’re having is, you know, this doesn’t go away after the end of Banned Book week. It keeps going. So how do we keep that conversation without one sounding like a broken record? Nobody wants to listen to it. And we get muted. And two, inviting others to participate. We haven’t quite discussed what that’s going to look like, but one of the proposals that will be coming from me for, you know, December specifically, or the end of November, for Americans, it will be Thanksgiving week, the end of November. Tara, belated happy Canadian Thanksgiving to you. Which I think went on during Banned Book Day.
>> Tara Scott: Thank you.
>> Becks Quirk: And then going into the holiday season, no matter how you feel about the holidays, and I’ll be one of the first people to be like, it is a rough time for me. M. I love people who love Christmas. I am the person who follows. I am not the person who instigates here. There is also this open invitation of like, I am grateful for or I am ending the year with something I didn’t start with. That I should express gratitude for. And if we go from we’re scared about our books being banned or we don’t stand with banning books and like, here’s what our books have. What happens if we go from like promoting our own work or promoting what we’re reading now to I’m m so incredibly thankful this year that I encountered this piece of media. I am so incredibly thankful this year that I discovered this author for the first time. Or that Kris and Tara’s podcast made sure I didn’t miss Hades too. Or that working with gcls let me know that even though it’s hard, being present in the south is vital in states where it may be scary to be there or, you know, overseas. We know that Yova Publishing is going to so many events and making sure that multi language novels are getting across the country and these stories aren’t only being told in one language.
And what does it look like then? If we take the momentum of you can’t ban us to, in addition to you can’t ban us, we also are gonna make sure that like everybody fricking knows that we are so thankful for this labor. So the creators keep creating because being attacked left and right all the time is its own form of execution. Sometimes people are just like, I don’t have the bandwidth to fight this for another six months. And then how do we, how do we capitalize on that without like trauma dumping or making trauma porn or being falsely, like overly, toxically positive? And it’s hard. I don’t have a lot of ideas. This is why I surround myself with people smarter than me, including Tara by a long shot and another person who couldn’t make this podcast, but she knows I’m talking about her. And what do we do going forward? But I think maybe to you as a participant, what do you see here? Like, is there something on the table that we haven’t captured yet? Or is it kind of like, okay, hey, we’re going into the busy season and I don’t know what to tell you. Like, it’s a lot of ideas right now we’re trying to figure out what to do next.
>> Tara Scott: I mean, honestly, I think the most important thing which you know, connects back to my, my mission and staying in my lane is just keep buying books, keep borrowing books, keep reading them, keep talking about them, don’t give up on them, don’t stop buying them because you’re afraid of having a, purchasing history. You know, in that way, don’t obey in advance, don’t give ground that you don’t have to do back up your books if they’re digital. And here’s a big one that I don’t know, a lot of people are thinking about. Back up the fanfic that you love to read. If there’s anything you love on AO3, download a copy, put it on your computer or some other devices so you can read it. Because if censorship comes real, real hard, then fanfic.net like if we see what happened to Tumblr come for the written form, the fanfic sites are not going to be okay. So like do all those things to protect what you need. But like support libraries, support librarians. There’s a big question, like, are libraries even still relevant today with so many things going digital? Yes, they are.
>> Becks Quirk: We just did a, how do you request our books through Libby? And that’s only digital, right? And that accessibility, there’s also a safety component for many first time readers to have a digital copy where the covers can’t be seen or they can’t be seen with them. Yes. Just everything you said fully. Yes. Also I’ll say it, a second time behind Tara, your reading history already exists. You stopping now is not going to save you from whatever the hell this team is trying to do. If anything, your dollar, be it your shopping dollar or your library shopping dollar will continue to make fights that they shouldn’t take it away because commerce wins and capitalism wins. So continuing to engage forward is actually a bigger act of resistance than stopping fully.
>> Tara Scott: So speaking of books.
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah.
>> Tara Scott: What have you been reading lately?
>> Becks Quirk: You know, I am. It’s no secret that I not only get, to be in this community, but I have, you know, some really good relationships that have been building for a while. I actually have the hard copy in addition to the paper. So we’re talking about, you know, back up some of your favorite. So, Luke, dreamers, they came from below. Halloween’s coming up. If you like a good zombie or like old B film focus, pick this up. There’s also two couples. So like you have double the chance of projecting yourself into somebody, to see yourself. If you need that to feel empowered or if, you’re just me, I get to be a voyeur for four and that’s great. So bring it on.
And then when it comes to what I’m reading right now, and as of this column, about 70% through. So I say that with a caveat of I guess any book can go any which way, but I’m not worried about it. Bryce Oakley very kindly gave me an advanced copy of After All, which drops next week. I think it’s the 24th, which is, the third book in the most recent series. So spoiler alert. The couples ended up together in the first two books. Go figure. And we’re following one to their bachelorette party in Vegas. This book follows an established couple, a married couple, who is quietly separating without their friends knowing. In the background, they’ve been cohabitating together, but in separate rooms. You know, kids just take what parents do as awkward adult isms and they’re kind of rolling with it and they’re both going about their careers and things with that. I don’t want to give away too many of the themes. I think each person will ingest this for the reasons they need to, including, love and loss and what happens in between.
In the most broad version of vulnerability I can give here, this is the book I desperately needed four years ago in my life. I think there is this. Really. Marriage hasn’t been around that long. You know, it was legalized here in the US for everybody and 2015 for queer couples. And then when it comes to just like historic whatever, we’re kind of all of our own grandparents. We’re all learning this in real time and the ability to talk about candidly the difficultness of marriage.
What happens when you both give people their own autonomy, but you need your own? How does growing together in parallel work in long term queer relationships? What happens when you still really like your person, but the marriage component might be or not be the right choice for you? This book has everything you want in a non committed group. There’s longing. There’s a lot of, like, quick banter and text messaging and knowing somebody and loving, loving the strong woman and the Labrador in the same space. But it has this extra element of when you partner those tropes with history, do they weigh the same? Do they weigh more or less? There’s a scene where one of the mains is about to say something, but they also know that saying it will drive the other one crazy, like being perceived will drive them crazy. And I think that that’s very true to established relationships.
Being thoughtful and seeing somebody fully when you start dating is really hot. And then I don’t want to speak for anybody else’s marriage, but I know sometimes I say things and my wife’s like, I don’t need you to point that out. I already know that. And where that was, like, I feel so great that you spend time seeing me. In the first six months of our relationship. Now, 13 years in, she’s like, I don’t need you to remind me. I’m aware. Or vice versa. you know, there’s moments that I’m like. She’s like, you should drink a glass of water and take care of yourself. And I’m like, I don’t need a mother. I have one of those. Right. But in the beginning of the relationship, I’m like, oh, my God, she was so thoughtful. She brought me a glass of water, and obviously, I’m crashing out. So, I think everybody should read this for a different reason.
For me, 13 years into my relationship with my wife, eight years into our marriage, there’s very much this idea of, like, oh, it’s still hot and sexy and vulnerable, and I don’t get to see characters like myself in that way. But also on the flip, these two characters are just different enough than my wife and I that I’m, like, rooting for them. I’m like, I hope they end up together. You know, I hope they destroy whatever this allusion to this minivan is. And I think Bryce has this very unique way of telling stories that read in one’s mind, like, a really great movie or a great miniseries like Netflix. I highly, highly recommend you jump on this. But also in the same way that when you’re talking to your friends about it, there’s, like, enough meat that you can learn a lot. Like, if you were to read this book, Tara, and we were to talk about what we took from it, I think I’d learn a lot about you and how relationships work for you in a different way than we usually get to see with a couple who has never been partnered for that long, even second chance couples. Right. Because something’s very different when there’s a legality involved and you have to tell people that you’re actually splitting.
>> Tara Scott: Yes.
>> Becks Quirk: You know, when I broke up in previous relationships, you know, it’s like, no, we broke up, and. And it was its own complication leases. If they were involved in friend groups and whatever. As soon as there’s that legal documentation, that government documentation, that conversation just changes. I’ve been present for other people. I’ve talked about the, you know, some of the lower points in my own relationship. And, like, did we make the right choice? Is this what we should have done? And it’s just a different nuance, and I’m so excited to see that nuance on the page. I’m also a person that when I get to follow a couple book to book, I’m all over that. Book. So Bryce has these established couples we’ve had throughout the books and then we get the most established couple as their story is the third volume. And maybe I’m just nerding out too much, but as soon as we hang up, I’m finishing the book. I love you very much, but that’s where I’m going.
>> Tara Scott: Understandable.
>> Becks Quirk: And I would just invite everybody to kind of like challenge themselves kind of going into this, this winter season to see what, they do and don’t like about the messiness of queer long term relationships and the messiness of both being fully seen and feeling too seen at once. And what happens when you weigh those differently. It’s obvious these two people very much care about each other in this book. Gwen and Maggie are absolutely in love with each other. It’s. Are they still smitten with each other and how much more does smitten way over respect and love? Because I do think, you know, a lot of queer people can have those mature relationships of we have the kids or we have our career. We have this community and that has to be cared for too. And so often we don’t care for ourselves and our partners can’t always wait for us to do it if they’re going to take care of themselves. And I think at the crux of this story there’s this very loud hum of how do we show up and take care of but not sacrifice our own care and the heaviness that comes with that. But this book is also just freaking hilarious. Like it, it’s just nice. Ah, yeah, that’s, that’s my rambling rant for, for Bryce Oakley’s After All. But if you see me in the next couple weeks, I’ll still be talking about this book. I just. This is the book I needed when I was younger and younger being 38, you know, and then this is the book I’m gonna pass to quite a few people as they’re on their own journey. So Bryce, thank you for that. That slice of life I’ve yet to have.
>> Tara Scott: That’s awesome.
Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. I’ve been seeing her promote it on Instagram, I think, and I’ve definitely been intrigued and wondering about this one. And it’s interesting. There aren’t very many books like that where you have an established couple and they’re breaking up. Or are they? And when you think about like the trajectory of Sapphic romance, there was a long time when it was mostly coming out books, which makes sense because that’s where we were as A culture and looking like, okay, 10 years past marriage equality being a thing when you know it’s kind of going back up in the air as a question mark. M. I think it’s really awesome and kind of brave to write a story, like that that shows an established couple kind of going through are they gonna make it or not?
>> Becks Quirk: The only one bed trope takes on a completely and it’s like a pull out couch too. Like there’s just so many levels here of almost like going back and being like demoted as like the newest couple. Right. And I don’t know if Bryce did that intentionally, but I, I definitely was like the person on the pullout couch with my girlfriend du jour for a very long time and then upgraded to the bedroom when I was established. And then kind of what happens when there’s newly established and maybe they need stronger walls than you do for obvious reasons early in that relationship. But that kind of play of that trope of like only one bed and you wake up cuddling and everybody else still thinks you’re together but you know something else is going on. And the, the mental pull of that has been really. I just really appreciate it. Like I’m gonna just sound like a nerd and a fan girl, but that’s candidly what it is. One of the only other times I had that in my started journey. Georgia Beers has a book called Olive Oil and White Bread. Are you familiar?
>> Tara Scott: Oh yeah, I’ve heard of it. I haven’t read it, but I know what one you’re talking about.
>> Becks Quirk: I reread that one three or four times during the pandemic, which is when I was 38 and unpacking all this shit.
>> Becks Quirk: I don’t know. This book’s been out long enough, so I’m gonna do a major spoiler if you think you wanna not know. Like fast forward 20 seconds. But there is infidelity in this book.
>> Tara Scott: Oh yeah. No, I’m kidding. I knew it. Well, I knew she gets. She’s written more cheating books than anybody else. I was like, how brave that she keeps coming for it, knowing that this community hates cheating in books.
>> Becks Quirk: I like the shape of you too. The infidelity didn’t bother. Like, I don’t want to say infidelity doesn’t bother me, but for those characters, infidelity was kind of almost what had to happen for them to stop like trying to just to force it to work. I don’t know if that stat is still true, but I know when Ruth and I were Getting married. Eight years ago, there were two stats that came out that, like, we just really sat on for a long time. One is that queer women divorce at a higher rate than gay men when they get married. And one of the hypotheses are, is when women are done, they know versus, like, the wishy washiness. So when you have two people of a similar gender identity, there’s double the chance of, like, okay, this is. This is the end. This is what I know. And then the other was the amount of marriages that go through because more people feel comfortable getting divorced than calling off a marriage that’s in motion, like, than having the ceremony.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, interesting. I was wondering if it might be. Because it’s also. And I don’t know if this is a stereotype, but I’ve seen a lot of gay men talk about this, that it’s just more normalized for gay men to have sex outside of their relationship or their marriage than it is for queer women.
>> Becks Quirk: I wouldn’t be. I mean, polyamory wasn’t really, an open conversation with most couples when we got married. I do feel like most of my Christian friends through polyamorous relationships, do not come for me. I. I’m only talking about a small group of people, and they’re allowed to come for me. And we make this joke all the time.
>> Tara Scott: Yep.
>> Becks Quirk: They’re like this component. And it was with straight couples, too, of, like, more couples as a whole feel more comfortable getting married and then later separating and dealing with family reactions and friend reactions than saying, hey, we’re not getting married. the wedding’s off. Like, whatever.
>> Tara Scott: That pressure is interesting.
>> Becks Quirk: And what’s been kind of fascinating as a queer person who did not have children is not having kids. That’s not our plan. Nobody really knows how to benchmark our relationship anymore because it was like, oh, you got married. Oh, you both have established your careers ellipses. So we’re, like, being a parent and watching, like, the kids hit certain markers, or our parents had certain markers or whatever. We’re just kind of in this limbo stage. So when there was any type of friction or, like, I don’t know what’s going on in our relationship, or, you know, we would just talk to our peers. They were like, well, you don’t have the normal stressors, so what’s going on? Which is not the case in this book. They have kids.
>> Tara Scott: That’s fucking rude.
>> Becks Quirk: but, you know, I think we’ve just been conditioned that, like, signs of success, which include relationships, include these benchmarks and as a queer person who like wants to go talk to other queer people about like, hey, do you have this problem in your marriage? And it’s not for lack of therapy or lack of caring for each other. It’s just, you know, we didn’t know this or is this where we’re going or how do we communicate and we’re not going to open our marriage. That’s just not that’s not the path for us. Ah. And it’s not really ever been based on that path either. It’s like, how do you take two people who desperately care about each other? And also how do they maintain their own sense of self without feeling smothered or they don’t feel like over inundated with the idea of marriage or these other things. And there’s just no, there’s no uphill for us. We have chosen families. Right. So as we’re cultivating those chosen families, we kind of have to put like, oh, that couple’s been together 20 years. Let’s make sure they’re in our circle so we can go to them when we have questions. Ah, at 10 or 15 years, what does this stuff look like? And it’s, it doesn’t sound like it should weigh that much, but I know I sit with like my straight identified friends and they make jokes or talk about their marriage in such a way that I just can’t. I’m othered immediately when I do it. So seeing any kind of marriage that just has normal stressors has become like, I’m so hungry for it. I’m so hungry to see queer people who experience mundane exhaustion. Mundane stressors. And it’s not just based on infidelity. In Georgia Beer’s, book, they’re not married. They couldn’t legally be married yet. They’ve just been partnered for a long time and surprise, surprise, they end up together at the end. Sorry to spoil it. But like, what does spoil the book.
>> Tara Scott: That’s been out for more than a decade.
>> Becks Quirk: for a hot minute.
>> Tara Scott: You had your chance, people.
>> Becks Quirk: I hate to tell you, Soylent Green, it’s people, like the dragon dies at the end, like all the stories, right? Yeah, but like my, my real dive into this is watching this happy couple get, you know, go through their bachelorette. Bryce, I fully stand with you. There better not be that Grand Canyon scene. regarding to what can you do with somebody else’s bachelorette that centers yourself, I’m on Maggie’s side for this. And then this more established couple and kind of where they are and will they won’t. They and I. It’s just kind of also fun to watch an established couple be new to each other again. I don’t know what your marriage looks like, but, like, most of the time in my marriage, when we hit a wall, the thing that gets us out of it is we’re just vulnerable in a way. We haven’t been vulnerable with each other again for a while, usually in a fun way. Right. We’re getting to rediscover each other. We’re not so uptight about it. And Bryce does a really beautiful job in this book of doing it. Plus, Vegas is just chaos, so it’s a good playground.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah, that sounds fabulous.
>> Becks Quirk: Tell me what you’re doing. and you said a historical romance, so I’m also like, pause over the. Over the fence post. Tell me about it.
>> Tara Scott: Good news. Okay, so Drag Race UK Season 7. I’ve been watching that. It’s all right. I feel like I’m waiting for it to kind of, like, hit its stride. I have a hard time seeing, like, where’s the storytelling going with this season? I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just happy there’s more. Drag Race Hades 2. I continue to play the shit out of. I have currently put in over 80 hours in that game, so I’m well past credits. I have the quest that will get me the epilogue, but, I’m not doing it yet because I’m clearing up some of the other quests first. It is possible that I will finish this week, and it is queer. So there’s four characters that you can be with, and there is no. You can be with one or all of them. It doesn’t really matter. Two of them are men, two of them are women. And I’ve had the two that I was most interested in, but I’m still pursuing the other two.
>> Becks Quirk: So I’m playing. But I’m. I’m, tens of hours behind you.
>> Tara Scott: Yes.
>> Becks Quirk: Two questions. One, is it a multi epilogue game, or are you coming up on the final epilogue? Like, Hades one had, like, three or four epilogues, depending on how long you played.
>> Tara Scott: As far as I know, there’s only one. Okay. Where you find and free the fates.
>> Becks Quirk: Okay. And then when it comes to romantic interest, I have no idea what that’s about to be other than what’s homegirl’s name? She’s basically Nemesis. Thank you. Nemesis is my favorite. Okay. I assumed. How much is it mirroring Hades one? Am I going to be able to, like, find out that, like, the Ghost who’s haunting me is also asexual, like doosa. Or is she just off the table?
>> Tara Scott: Off the table.
>> Becks Quirk: Okay. Because that was a whole plot line too, on in Hades where, like, they try to make doosa a thing, but, like, do so is more like. That was weird.
>> Tara Scott: It was a French. It was a friendship romance, which actually, in a way, is kind of cool, but also is like. Wait, what? So there is a ghost that’s haunting you who she ends up being is quite interesting. And I actually think knowing who she is, that’s part of why I’m glad she’s not one of the romanceable options. Cool.
>> Becks Quirk: Good.
>> Tara Scott: She’s got enough going on. She doesn’t need Milena way on top of all that.
>> Becks Quirk: Is Oedipus one? Do we have Oedipus in this?
>> Tara Scott: No, no, he’s not in this game.
>> Becks Quirk: Not Oedipus. I’m sorry. Odysseus.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, Odysseus. He is in the game. No, he’s not One. So one of them is right now.
>> Becks Quirk: I really like getting stuff from him, but I don’t really want to romance him, so.
>> Tara Scott: No, no, no, no, no, no. It’s not him. One of them is Nemesis. One of them is. Well, here’s the weird thing. Three of them are siblings, but that’s because Nick’s had so many damn kids. So Nemesis, Moros, who is like the God of doom, Eris, who is Strife, and then Icarus, who is.
>> Becks Quirk: Oh, we get. We get Icarus in this.
>> Tara Scott: He’s the best boy. I mean, Icarus is the best boy. Yes. So you get, like, one true sweetheart. But I really, really, really enjoyed. So Moros and Nemesis are the two that I’ve successfully romance so far. But I really like where it’s gone with Nemesis because, of course, it’s enemies to lovers. It is your nemesis, in fact.
>> Becks Quirk: I mean, from the second you meet her, like, you two, you’re like the Labrador to her ice queen. Like, that’s just. Yeah.
>> Tara Scott: To your gigantic ice queen with huge rippling muscles and will fuck a person up with her weapon.
>> Becks Quirk: I. I also. I’m just so into this narrative of not, like, beating somebody down to beat them down. In Hades too, we have this amazing thing of, like, we want to make sure that you have the tools to be strong enough to keep going forward. And if you don’t, let’s go again. I’m. Again, I’m tens of hours behind you. But, God, the writing is so good. And Hades is one of my favorite games ever.
>> Tara Scott: Yes.
>> Becks Quirk: Oh, my the feminism and the witchcraft in this one is just so good. Also, Arachne, the illustration for Arachne and her pettiness.
>> Tara Scott: It’s so good.
Yes, yes. We’ve. So Neil and I have been talking about it because he’s. I don’t know how many hours he’s put in, but he’s farther along than I am, for sure. And, we’ve talked about the, like, Hades versus Hades too. There are some people, like, some of the. There have been some, like, quite negative reviews of Hades too, and I don’t really understand it. I think the gameplay is better. I mean, the writing isn’t necessarily as tight and when you get to credits like there. There is something about the story where it’s like, This narratively makes sense, but it’s not necessarily as satisfying. And I don’t want to spoil it for anybody, so come find me later if you want to talk it out. But I don’t think it’s bad because, again, like, it narratively makes sense. But there is something really lovely about what this game does, what this series does with Roguelike as a game type, because it is this. You start your run, you die pretty quickly because you don’t have the things that you need to succeed. But as you go, with each run, you pick up more and more things that let you get stronger and stronger. And isn’t that kind of like life as you go through more experiences and you pick up, you know, wisdom and perspective and relationships that mean that you can do things that you weren’t able to do before?
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah. We’re gonna have to definitely talk.
And I’m interested about the story. I’m very aware playing this one where I went in immediately with the mechanics. So, like, in the original Hades, you have to get a fishing pole from like Poseidon at some point later.
>> Tara Scott: It takes fucking forever to take a fishing rod.
>> Becks Quirk: And to be honest, I don’t think I were there fish before you get the rod. Does it. Did they exist in the gameplay at all? I don’t know.
>> Tara Scott: yeah, you see, you see the fishing points. And that was something that I complained about possibly to you and our friend.
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah, but like, in this one, they exist from the jump and then you have to collect stuff to like, eventually make your own. So, like, there’s a certain gameplay component from game one that you’re aware of, even though it takes a long ass time to start doing it. And I’m like, am I going in already? Like, can I be authentically invested where I’m not Comparing the two when I’m already forced to play the game with knowledge of the first one.
>> Tara Scott: Well, I think the thing that I liked about this because I did go back and replay Hades M it was before I played Wildflowers, which I think I was, So it was probably about three, three, four months ago I was playing Hades again, mostly because Neil was playing it, again. And I was like, well, I want to play it again too. And I’m stuck in Balatro, so I’m going to do that. And I forgot how satisfying the gameplay is. But now coming into this game, it’s very interesting because, like, after a little while, you not only go like, you fight your way downward, but then you have the option to go up to Mount Olympus eventually. And so what I found with Hades, like, the reason why I didn’t get all the way to the like, proper ending, playing it through more recently was I was like, I don’t really care. Like, because it’s all the same. You go through Tartarus and then you go through the next one, and then you go through the next one, you go to the surface and you start all over again. And that’s fine. But now with this, the way it’s set up, and also you can do like mini challenges. There’s a way that you get them from Chaos. And so it’s like, okay, you’re going to go to this level whether it’s going up to Mount Olympus or going. I’ve. I’ve been calling them upstairs, downstairs, because I’m m an idiot and I don’t want to remember the names of all the locations. So it’ll be like just in each direction you have four areas. So it’ll be like one of the areas with a certain set, like a location, a keepsake. That might be it, but sometimes there’s also like one other thing it’ll give you. And so there’s choice in where you go. And so there’s still repetition. But like, for example, yesterday I did a bunch of runs up Mount Olympus. I was like, I don’t want it anymore. So I started going downstairs. And so there’s enough novelty because that’s, I mean, again, like having that ADHD profile. Novelty is hugely important for me. And knowing that, like, okay, well then I. I’m gonna go work on this thing over here. I found that very helpful.
>> Becks Quirk: I love it. I’m also aware we’re playing a female lead because, like, when you play a Zag, Zag doesn’t have to like, cultivate his own Garden or build his own tools. They’re just handed to him. And then you play here and you’re like, oh no, you need to grow your potion resources. You need to like collect the iron ore to build your whatever.
>> Tara Scott: Which also makes sense though because you’re a witch.
>> Becks Quirk: You are like it’s.
>> Tara Scott: You’ve been raised by a witch. You are a witch. And it’s. Yeah, it’s fabulous.
>> Becks Quirk: If you are a fan of the gameplay, the update to the graphics of like Zeus and how he looks Nor or Diana, like how the hair has changed or how the costuming has changed. It’s kind of like when you don’t see somebody for you know, a year or two and they’ve come into just a little bit more money and they’re a little bit shinier. It’s fascinating to watch how they’ve updated the gods since the gods helped overrule what happened in the first one.
>> Tara Scott: I was talking to Neil about this because some of them, I was like, Athena, holy shit, she’s terrifying. And he’s like, yeah, they’re at war right now. And so you see like Demeter too. Like they’re showing up in this is what they wear when they’re at war. Just all the details. It’s really thoughtful. I’m really loving it.
>> Becks Quirk: Voice acting. Chaos. Chaos. Like I don’t want to give anything away. I’ve only played for like tens of hours. But Chaos’s journey from the first one. Because I remember trying to get Chaos and Nyx together for the longest freaking time.
>> Becks Quirk: It’s just the Bowie esque of Chaos this time, the gender. Oh, it’s so good.
>> Tara Scott: It’s so sexy.
>> Becks Quirk: Oh, good.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah. Ah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
>> Becks Quirk: And then who, who’s in the the clamshell.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, Scylla. Scylla is just like, yes, Sirens are a band.
>> Becks Quirk: It’s so good.
>> Tara Scott: I haven’t done anything.
>> Becks Quirk: Especially when you have Odysseus like back like at home base and you’re just like, oh, I remember this from the Odyssey. Like the, the nods to all of it. And Homer finding this is. I don’t think it’s a spoiler. You find it out fast. Homer’s that frickin narrator who’s been following you for the last two games. I’m like, genius. Like, and he’s snarky and you can call him out. It’s just like, it’s so meta this way that if you are a Greek nerd for five seconds, it just fills something M Inside of you.
>> Tara Scott: Which is so funny because one of the reviews. So Neil sent it to me and he was like, this review makes me sad. And I read it and it was somebody basically saying that it wasn’t accurate enough to who the gods and whatever were. And the rant I went on, I was so annoyed and I said the word fuck a lot of times because I think it is an excellent way to present this like Greek mythology for a contemporary era. I think it’s done so well. It’s so beautiful. Go make your own game if that’s the game that you want to have, because this one is excellent.
>> Becks Quirk: I feel like whomever wrote that would probably also complain about the latest translation, of the Odyssey, which has Emily Wilson as the newest translator. M. You better also be complaining about Hades if it’s going to come into like accuracy too though. Like you can’t just come for Hades too because.
>> Becks Quirk: Just. I don’t want to speak for anybody else. I frickin frickin love Eurydices. Orpheus drove me freaking crazy in that book. In the first game I was just like, you’re such a wet blanket. You don’t do shit. Like she’s too good for you, but like you like unpack things for him, but she does all the work. But I guess that’s also kind of Orpheus, right? It kind of leaned into like the lost musician. If I don’t have my art and I don’t have my muse, what happens? And it has its own power. But also, if you’ve read anything about Orpheus, I don’t. There’s a lot more that I don’t. If you’re looking for perfection, the Greek gods are not where you start. Like.
>> Tara Scott: No, no. Like honestly, I’m glad it wasn’t super true to it. I don’t want to see Zeus raping that many people. It’s not, it’s not what I’m here for. So. Yes.
Anyway, Hades 2, it continues.
And I read a book and this. Okay, so I am recommending a historical book. But also I read a different historical book because I read Iceberg by Gun Brooke, who I know I talk about her fairly frequently. I love her. She’s one of the first. She’s one of the first Sapphic fiction authors I ever read. Course of Action is one of my. Like, it has a lot of first book problems, but I still love it anyway.
And this one, I enjoyed it. I mean it’s a Titanic book. So you know, you kind of know going into it, what you know what, you know what’s gonna happen? Yeah, you. You know what’s gonna happen, at least some of it. And so this one follows. There’s Lady Arabella Gray. She’s widowed, she has twin 11 year old daughters. She hires a governess who her friend recommends. So that’s, Xandra Lancaster. Arabella is kind of skeptical when she arrives, but actually she’s awesome with the kids who. The kids haven’t liked anyone kind of before or often have a bad time with governesses. Zandra really wants to make it work because if this role doesn’t work, she is financially boned. And she has, like, kind of a secret going on that nobody knows about, but comes out later on she finds out there’s kind of like this interesting, like, how did I not know about this going forward? So the friend who recommended her neglected to mention to her that Arabella is looking for somebody to come with her and her kids to New York. They’re in London, but she wants to go and spend a couple of years in New York. Arabella is an author of, like, children’s fantasy books and she wants to, like, write a couple of books from her house in New York City and then maybe see if they come back to the US and once they sort of hash it, out, it’s like, yes, okay, I’ll go with you. It’ll be fine. And they have the exciting, they’re going to be on the Titanic voyage. Isn’t that wonderful? Except there is, as the title says, an iceberg.
So this one started out as a Devil Wears Prada fanfic. And I know because, like, I’m in that Facebook group and I remember her talking about it getting picked up. So I kind of kept an eye out. And when it came out, you know, I read it, I really enjoyed it. It sucked me in, kept me hooked. That’s just what happens with her books most of the time anyway. I would say there’s like a pretty decent chunk of it that takes place in London. There’s a decent chunk that takes place on the Titanic, and there’s a decent chunk that takes place in New York. So it’s not like there’s a little bit in London and then most of it is on the Titanic and then, oh, holy shit, you know, iceberg. And then a tiny bit of New York. Like, it’s a decent kind of spread out. I think I liked that because I didn’t really start bracing myself until they were on the ship because again, everybody knows what happens there.
>> Becks Quirk: What happens Tara.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, no.
>> Becks Quirk: They crash.
>> Tara Scott: The other thing that I really liked about it was it basically says who the villain of the book is on the COVID of the book. So we don’t have to worry about. This is not a third act breakup. It’s more of like, oh, shit, is everybody going to live? And you know they are because it’s a romance, but it still worked. And it’s also a question not just for them, because again, like, you need tension to come in a book from somewhere. Like, if you’re not going to have a third act breakup, you do need to have a, strong enough tension from elsewhere. And in this case, because there’s a lot of found family to this book. There’s the people that, the other people that work for Arabella. So she has like a maid and, I don’t know, I forget what the other lady does. And they’re together and then she has a butler and it’s like, okay, well, does everybody make it to New York and is everybody going to be okay? I am not a historian, so I cannot say for sure. Some of the, like, what is historically accurate and what is not. There were certain words and terms that I was pretty sure were not. And I was like, fuck it, I don’t care. I’m reading this for fun. especially knowing that it’s. It’s a book that came from fanfic rather than Lynn Ames will do however much research before she does any of her historic novels. That was fine because I really enjoyed it. I loved the Found Family. The chemistry was super good. So, yeah, I continue to love Gunbrook. She’s. I don’t always read her sci fi, but anything other than the sci fi I always read. So I had a great time with this one. Again, it’s called Iceberg. It’s a cute book. I liked it a lot. That was a lot of talking. What is your official recommendation?
>> Becks Quirk: my official recommendation, just because I believe in closing loops. Because I was raised in a corporate life. The last time the two of us talked, I had listened to Allison Cochran’s Here We Go Again last month. I listened to the most recent one, which is Every Step She Takes. It’s about doing, the Camino in Portugal, which I’ve always wanted to do and my in laws are currently doing. So I don’t get jealous often, but I’m desperately jealous right now.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah.
>> Becks Quirk: And I’ve read a lot of reviews about this book and there’s some strong feelings about one of the leads specifically and if people enjoy her or not. Here’s what I will say. It is a book about figuring out your queerness. M at 30, which doesn’t sound that late to me in my 40s, but it can feel late.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah, I was 33.
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah. I think what I’m trying to say, like it’s not fair. I felt like I was coming out late at 22, which in hindsight like, oh, you sweet summer child. But you know, I, I think, you know, you compare yourself to your, your peer group and yes, there’s this coming out that happens past most of when peer groups have started to establish relationships. And then there’s this idea of wrong place, right time because the lead character is doing this trip because her queer sister can’t make it right. And she comes from a family where being queer is not a big ordeal. And like coming out wouldn’t be a big thing. But what rules do you put on yourself when you’re the predictable person? And then there’s certain people with certain access to things who are like my way of rebelling against that access is to not look like I come from financial wealth because I don’t agree with a lot of how that financial wealth was acquired or is practiced with now. So the story within that, that book brings me a lot of joy. So I think my recommendation, yes, is that book but it’s also just, just if you like something, just like it and if everybody else doesn’t like it, screw em Like I, I’m just. This week I’m just kind of in this phase of I really think joy is where the monetary resistance is these days. I think joy is where we get to compound and continue to all of us know it’s going poorly. I was in an event two nights ago honoring somebody who won a very big award here in Colorado. And the guest speaker got up and we had one of the, one of the attorneys speak who was in court recently fighting to keep the conversion therapy ban here in Colorado. and you know, sorry, the conversion.
>> Tara Scott: Therapy thing, just like, why am I apologizing? We agree as Jose pisses me off.
>> Becks Quirk: it’s so bad. So like to 10,000 foot view in, in Colorado you cannot engage in conversion therapy. It is, it is banned here. And somebody from Colorado Springs, which is also like where Focus on the Family is located. If you live in Colorado and you are liberal in any way, you have a lot of feeling about the springs.
>> Tara Scott: I just know it from. Isn’t that where Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman took place?
>> Becks Quirk: You know, I should know that considering the, the company I work for works.
>> Tara Scott: That’s what my brain.
>> Becks Quirk: I’ll have to go look. I definitely watched it growing up. Now I’m gonna have to go look.
>> Tara Scott: I watched the shit out of that show. Had no idea at the time that I had a crush on her, because I didn’t think that that was the thing.
>> Becks Quirk: Is the eldest daughter’s name Colleen? I think that’s her name. I had a crush on her. In hindsight, I’m like, oh, no. That’s what that was. Because my mom and I would watch it, and she’s like, Jane Seymour. So pretty. And I’m like, so is Colleen. My mom really likes Sully. Is that the actor who played the, like. Oh, yeah. White savior.
>> Tara Scott: I liked him, too. I mean, again, bisexual. Here we are.
>> Becks Quirk: Yeah, Well, I mean, good hair in that show. Everybody had good hair.
>> Tara Scott: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Becks Quirk: Anyway, so, yeah. also the cake fight in the US Supreme Court about the imaginary couple that didn’t exist in this person’s like, I shouldn’t be forced to make a cake for a gay couple. That was somebody who was picked up from that area of the state as well. Okay. But, all that to be said. Somebody who was fighting to maintain that ban was at this and speaking and said, you know, we’re not. We’re not going to pretend it’s going to be okay. It’s going to get worse first. That’s just the truth of it. But also, we invested in this. Like, the only thing we could do is win, even though we know that’s not likely with this court. They haven’t voted in our favor since.
>> Tara Scott: That’s right.
>> Becks Quirk: Super majority. And they talked about even when you know you’re going to lose, showing up with the passion as if you’re going to win, and then celebrating where you can in those moments. And it sounds so simple, but I had to hear it in my seat. Our household has just been super depressed. My wife and I have just both been, like, fighting. Today is exhausting. We don’t have the energy. We’re. Sarah. If we slow down, we won’t have the energy again, and they’ll win. Like, rest isn’t available. We don’t know if we have momentum to keep going. And fighting with our internal monologues and just having somebody acknowledge that it sucks right now, and it’s probably gonna suck worse. But also, we laughed in this room. We’re breathing together in this room, and everybody in this room can find somebody to have a moment of joy with was what I needed. And it’s also it just helped. It’s helping my reading and other things right now. I’m like, I just. I just need to feel like this couple is annoying and wonderful, and they’re annoying. I just need to feel like this book that I’ve read six times, it’s okay to read it the seventh, and I don’t owe anybody an explanation, including myself. Go revisit the series that you trust, because it’s not going to upset.
You know that, like, you want to participate in commerce, and budgets are tight right now. I just requested 45 books from Libby, and I might get two, but, hell, that’s two that’ll be purchased for that author or that publisher or both. Incremental steps are still steps. So, it’s not the toxic positivity as much as, like, incremental joy is really what. That’s where I am right now. And I have to stay there.
>> Tara Scott: Absolutely. I mean, if you have the spoons for it, even if you only read the introduction. I highly, highly, highly recommend Rebecca Solnit’s book Hope in the Dark. And I know I talked to you about this, like, not too long after the election because I started reading it, but I think that. And her. She has a newsletter space on Ghost where you can also read all of her old entries. But the way she talks about how, like, yeah, it’s gonna get bad and it’s gonna get worse, and I’m amalgamating what she said on there since the election with the book that she wrote 20 years ago.
But this idea that, like, we don’t actually know for sure what’s gonna happen. Like, when things are dark, there are still possibilities open, and if we don’t do anything, then, yeah, good’s not going to happen. But hope has to be, in some ways, like, it has to be kinetic. It’s not just a feeling. I remember one line being something like, hope is an ax breaking down the door. And I do think joy is one of the things that lets you keep that momentum. It’s honestly, the introduction alone is well worth the read. So I think for anybody that’s feeling like things are heavy as hell and understandably, and it is okay to feel that way. I took a lot of, I took a lot from that and even from. There was something that she wrote, like the Facebook post she wrote on the day of the election. She talks about how, like, you know, they want you to feel afraid and they want you to. That’s the point of, like, so much coming in so quickly. Is this, like, wanting us all to freeze up and not doing anything about it.
But I think, you know, I think every so often, if I were to get more tattoos, what would I get? Luckily my tattoo artist moved away a few years ago, so that did good things for my budget. But I think I would find somebody who does really good script. And I really love this thing that she said in that post from the day after the election where she says, remember what you love. Remember what loves you. And I think getting those two lines and then the thing she says is the reason that you’re hurting is because of what you love. That’s the part I would not get tattooed. But I do think there’s something to that. So.
Okay, but back to the point of the book. What do you love about that book? Just like give people some reasons why they would want to read. Like if you were pitching this book to people, who do you think might like it?
>> Becks Quirk: Oh yeah, I, completely got. So. Okay. I think if you scream at the top of your lungs because you’re experiencing, experiencing turbulence, that you’re gonna die a virgin is already a reason to read a book. Paraphrasing a lot, but like, there’s something about like the messiness of like turbulence for anybody who does not love flying that I am already there for. I am also a sucker. And Cochrane’s done this, you know, she did this with the cross country trip in the book previous to this and this is just kind of her motif. I am very much a person who loves the idea of physical movement while unpacking internal dialogues. And I think that there’s a beautiful thing here of like where we’re watching them move further than the Portofino, which are, the Camino, pardon me, which, you know, you’re walking 10 to 13 miles a day, which in a car can take 15 minutes like, but like this is an all day experience. And unlike some hiking like the Appalachian Trail or Continental Divide, you’re like stopping and having snacks and eating local fare and like engaging a little bit more. You’re having glasses of wine along the way. And I think there’s something really sexy and human about what happens when there’s a physical activity going on that exhausts the body while the mind is being exhausting. And when you are able to exhaust the body, the m. Mind also has to get a little bit quieter and what are the things that you’re thinking about the most and how does that connect or disconnect you from people? So I think this is very much a book for people who hate Jack Kerouac. But I love a travel novel. And I’m one of those people.
>> Tara Scott: Screw it. It’s for me. Yay. I gotta go read it.
>> Becks Quirk: Tell me you’re an English major. Me by saying you hate the beats to some extent. And I have a soft spot for Allen Ginsburg. Don’t get me wrong, Carol.
>> Tara Scott: And his two page sentences. Can I fuck all the way up?
>> Becks Quirk: and, like, the idea of, like, writing it on one endless stream of paper. I think it’s because of the men who lift him up. That is why I hate him. Like, I read him for class, but the men who idolize him are not the guys I want to hang out with.
>> Tara Scott: Yep.
>> Becks Quirk: They also love Lolita, usually, and keep telling me to read Infinite Jest. I’m just not the right person.
>> Becks Quirk: So the. I love this book. One, the book is delightful. And two, I did the audio narration, which includes having. I’m, so sorry. I’m trying not to say Jeremy. Quinn.
>> Tara Scott: Riley reading to you.
>> Becks Quirk: So I also, like I said, did the audio narration of this. And one of the two narrators is Quinn. And, you know, I feel that a lot of your audience, myself included, you know, Quinn or Laurie, do a book, and I’m all over it. That’s just how it goes.
>> Tara Scott: So, yes, makes sense.
>> Becks Quirk: You were talking about, you know, the iceberg in this upcoming one.
Is there anything that you currently have that you’re super excited to read next? Or anything else that you haven’t been able to shout out because you consume so much?
>> Tara Scott: Well, I have my official recommendation.
>> Becks Quirk: I want to hear about it.
>> Tara Scott: Okay, good. So it has what I think is one of the single best titles I’ve ever heard of. It’s called Ladies in Hating by Alexandra Vasti. I heard that title and I was like, what is that? And then I went and read about the premise, and I was like, oh, my God, I’m, here for it. What’s happening? And then I read it, and I loved it. It absolutely lived up.
So Lady Georgiana Cleeve is an author who publishes under another name. And I forget what it is. It doesn’t really matter. But she’s. Everybody knows that. Like, she is the person behind this pen name, and she is a very popular author of gothic novels. It is 18, I believe, 22. It’s, like, early ish in the 1800s. But she has an enemy because somebody who publishes under the name Lady Darling seems to be stealing plot points from her manuscripts. What the fuck is up with that? She is not here for it. She cannot put up with this because she needs the money. Yes, she is a lady, but to save a friend, which will make more sense when you read it, she unmasked herself to her father and got kicked out of the family. And her mother came with her. And so she needs to be able to keep supporting herself and her mother and her books is how she does it.
So she needs to find out, who is this Lady Darling? What the hell? And then when she finds her, she finds out that Lady Darling is Kat Lacey, who was the butler’s daughter when she was growing up, AKA her big old teenage crush, which I love. Kat Lacey also needs the money because one day Georgiana’s father tossed them out and was like, get out. You’re fired. That’s it. And so she. Her father’s no longer there, but she’s supporting her younger brother, who’s about 15, and somebody else, who I can’t remember off the top of my head. I think she’s like, a cousin or a friend or whatever. She’s about talking fine, but, you know, then she runs into Lady Georgiana Cleave, who is, like, gorgeous and pretentious and kind of bitchy and quite rude, frankly, about this. What do you mean? That I’ve been stealing your plot points off? No, I haven’t. Leave me alone.
So they sort of, you know, they. They’ve seen each other, they split off, and they both end up staying at the same supposedly haunted manor, which had been closed off. Kat ends up there because her lawyer tells her, hey, they’re starting to take people again. Maybe you’ll get something good for your next book. And when she gets there, Georgiana is staying there, too. And so it’s this, like, what. What are you doing here? And then they. They decide they, like, slowly sort of make their way. Feelings deliver along the way in this haunted manner.
And, it’s just. It’s so fun. Like, it’s so, so fun. As far as I can tell, this is the only sapphic book by this author, which annoys me, because I don’t read books with straight couples in them. Like, I just. I don’t, frankly, don’t have time, especially with the reading that I do for this, which I know I could do less if I wanted to, but I don’t. This is the third book in a series called Belvoir’s Library Completely Stands Alone. I went and looked up the blurbs for the other two, and it, like, really doesn’t matter if you haven’t read them. The library itself does feature in this and like, the concept is kind of cool. It’s this, like, very feminist library with books where, like, women can actually go read about passionate stories and stuff like that. Like, it’s this very, it’s very cool. But this book, like, it’s super fun, but the romance gets actually quite emotional, more than I expected. I love the idea, idea of dueling gothic novelists in this story that itself draws from gothic tropes because they’re staying in this creepy ass manner, which is like, it’s truly a spooky place.
I also really liked the characters and the character work. So I talked about Georgiana and how much she needs the money because she, like, revealed her identity. And it was like quite the scandal that somebody with a title like hers would be writing these salacious or, perceived as salacious novels. And so it’s really led to this, oh, no, I ruin other people’s lives. And so she has to deal with that. Like, how. How can I let somebody in if I might ruin their life by letting them associate with me such a scandalous person? And it gets into more examples of, like, why she feels that way. But it’s a very different take on the Ice Queen, I think, than I’m used to. And I love the idea that she’s the one who’s like, oh, no. And she’s forced to see her, like, high school age crush all over again. Like, I think there is something really fun about that. And like I said, Kat also, like, she. This idea that they both need to protect their livelihood, but they’re also both extremely successful and what they do is really popular. And that, you know, that thing when you grow up with no money and then all of a sudden you sort of stabilize in the money department, but your brain hasn’t caught up with it yet.
>> Becks Quirk: Do you. I do think I want somebody to write this novel. We’re not writing. We both said we don’t want to write these novels.
>> Tara Scott: No.
>> Becks Quirk: There’s two things that we, joke about in our relationship that are like those questions. One is like, how did families open pickle jars or like, jars in your household? Because you can learn a lot about, like, social, economic based on, like, was it the spoon? Was it under the water? Did you, like, have a gadget? And I think the other one is, like, what product can you still not bring yourself to pay more than a certain price for?
>> Tara Scott: Uh-huh.
>> Becks Quirk: And why is it almost always undergarments or socks, like those everyday wear items? But yeah, no, I’m. I’m. Yes, as a person who very much was under the impression, like most Americans, that my family was very middle class until I got around truly middle class people and started to unpack that.
>> Becks Quirk: This is a Regency novel as well, right? Like time wise, I’m assuming you have not. You don’t read straight novels, so you haven’t read them. Have you watched Bridgerton?
>> Tara Scott: I haven’t. Mostly because I don’t watch shows. Yeah. Which is fair. Except RuPaul’s Drag Race. It’s the only show that I watch regularly.
>> Becks Quirk: No, you’re good. I did consume all those novels, including the prequels.
>> Becks Quirk: Mostly during the pandemic and I watched the show religiously and I’m chomping at the bit for January when it comes back. This is like, this is my version of, of like that thing. Most people don’t associate with me, but I am obsessed with it. And there is kind of this like Lady Whistledown character who’s been writing these. And you find out through the books, it’s one of the characters and their best friend finds out. So I do think there will be some like cross comparison here, but this is exactly what I need because I’m not getting that Sapphic story. At least in the books. they have changed one of the characters to go from Michael to Michaela in the series.
>> Tara Scott: So cute.
>> Becks Quirk: We’re supposed to get that. Everybody’s supposed to end up adjacently with what they like, whom they end up with in the books. So this gender swap should mean that Francesca is going to be with Michaela.
But I really love this idea too of like, you were talking about the financial. I think what’s going to be fascinating, and maybe you can give some insight is when one person has to spend less than they’re usually used to spending. Right. Like she’s keeping herself afloat and then the other one gets to spend up and do those two things. Are they parallel or like what is what is considered the indulgence, spin versus what is the necessity spend. because money is its own fascinating character all the time.
>> Tara Scott: So in this case we don’t really see Georgiana figure out the spending less because she’s been doing this for five or six years, so she’s well into her journey. But there was a book I recommended recently, it’s called the Fortune Hunter’s Guide to Love. So that does show someone who went from this like, position of extreme privilege to like, hey, you got to get a job and now you’re working at a farm.
This book instead, because they’ve been at it for a while. It’s more like Georgiana is afraid of losing versus has had to learn how to curb spending. But Kat, on the other hand, does have to get used to this idea of, oh, we’re actually okay. Like, she still has a job that she doesn’t need to have, and, you know, working at a pie maker and is able to figure out, like, okay, maybe I don’t have to actually work there anymore. So that was a thing. But, yeah, it’s just. It’s really. It’s really fun.
As uptight and kind of generally afraid of life as Georgiana is, Cat is very, like, just seems to relish life, and they end up kind of making their way because Cat really likes to ruffle her feathers. And it just, like, it sort of works well, and it takes a while, unsurprisingly, because Georgiana is afraid of, like, tainting other people around her. She runs kind of hot and cold. And so I really loved when Kat understood what drives this behavior because it lets her find ways to, like, really call her on it and support her and help her understand that, like, you deserve to be loved, too. Like, it’s not just other people that deserve love. You deserve it. And Georgiana really has to internalize that.
And when I said kind of way back at the beginning, when we were talking about representation and fiction mattering, this comes up specifically in this book. So one of the things was, you know, there was a wonderful library, of course, at the family’s estate where Georgiana grew up. And Kat, of course, you know, her family spent some time there as well, because her dad worked there. And, Kat could tell the books that Georgiana had been reading because Georgiana would leave little notes in the margin. So in reading the marginalia. And they were talking about this at one point, and Kat said it was good, wasn’t it, to have those books to see other women like us? Because there weren’t many, but there were, you know, a couple. And Georgiana was thinking about, like, it just gave her such relief to know that she was normal, even though she had crushes on women. And there’s another, like, there’s kind of a mystery related to the estate that I’m not going to get into. But it’s really lovely and it comes down. You know, it gets sorted out through the translating of some letters. But there’s a line here that I really love that says, that was the way of history, particularly intimate ones, always they were partial, fragmented, the narrative filled in at the edges for those people. Who had to hide the truth of their hearts from the world. The erasures were even larger, even more like a wound. And so this idea of, like, whose stories get preserved, whose stories get told, and I just thought it was so wonderful, like it was a story firmly grounded in the past, reminding us that in a lot of ways we are so lucky to have so much access to representation of people like us. Which I think, you know, to go back to what we were saying, it makes it worth fighting for. It makes it not only worth, but necessary.
The other thing that I thought was so cool was when I got to the acknowledgments, she called out queer historians and one of them was Dr. Heather Rose Jones. Do you know Heather? Right? Yeah, you’re doing little fist bumps in the air. So for people who aren’t familiar, Heather Rose Jones is. She is an author of the Alpena and many other books. She is a podcaster and which is a part of her broader lesbian historic motif project. And it was just so cool to see someone from our corner of the Sapphic fiction world getting called out in the acknowledgments of a traditionally published book. I just thought that was so wonderful to see somebody giving Heather her flowers because she has been working tirelessly at collecting history of Sapphic women so that other people can access it. So yes, ladies in hating, I loved it very, very much. It went to my favorites folder on my Kindle so that I can find it again when I want to read something fun because it was just so good. Becks, thank you so, so much for joining and filling in while Kris was not able to make it.
>> Becks Quirk: Kris, I appreciate you. I, will talk to you before your book release next month, but I’m also going to plug in the last two seconds I have that. Kris is dropping a new book next month and everybody should check it out. Tara, I can’t thank you two enough for all the work you do. You’re who I need now. Not even when I was younger. You’re always who I need. So thank you and Kris for continuing to make sure that we have access and more knowledge about what’s in front of us. It really is a life saving m measure that both of you, perform and you do it with so much humility and humor and I’m just the biggest frickin fan. So thank you.
>> Tara Scott: Thank you so much. And for everybody listening, if you’ve made it this far, thank you so, so much for listening. If you’ve enjoyed the episode and you haven’t subscribed yet. Please make sure you do on your app. If you have a friend that you think would like to hear this episode, whether it’s for the recommendations or the discussion about what you can do around book bands, please tell them all about it. If you want to support us, we have links in our show notes to our Ko Fi, or if you want to connect on our favorite social media sites, we are probably there. you can just search for Queerly Recommended on most of them or email us at podcast Queerly recommended dot com. Goodbye, everybody. That was a lot of talking. What is your official recommendation?
>> Becks Quirk: My recommendation is don’t sneeze while you’re on a microphone.
>> Tara Scott: Oh, no. You know that’s going to be the outtake.
>> Becks Quirk: Sorry, Neil. I’ve been muting so many times. I’m so sorry. my Good grief.