Transcript: It’s Not/We’re Not Ok (QR005)

February 16, 2021

Listen to this episode!

Tara 0:18
Hey everyone, welcome to Queerly Recommended. I am Tara Scott and with me as always is Kris Bryant.

Kris 0:25
Hello! Welcome to Episode Five and we are glad to be back.

Tara 0:29
Okay. Before anything else, Kris, I feel like I need to check in. I saw the news about Wynonna Earp being canceled. Are you okay? Do we need to send snacks? Do you need a cuddle? What do you need?

Kris 0:42
You know, I need all of that. I’m not okay. I mean, just when we have like super positive queer representation and a really cool series, it gets canceled. And here’s the thing, like it got canceled before. And then the fans did so much getting together and getting the the fifth season out there. And I feel like it got canceled and it’s canceled for good. Like, during the last time, it felt like there was a chance, you know, okay, we could go here, we could go there. You know, try a different platform. Try, you know, Hulu, try Netflix, try something. And they got a fifth season. And so I feel like everybody’s kind of tapped. And I feel like this is truly the end of the series, which makes me sad. Because, you know, I wonder about, it’s like a breakup, I wonder about how everybody is taking it. I know that they’re going to be conventions, but it’s ever been at all the actors and actresses. Are they going to be able to go to the conferences? For the fans? You know, how long is this going to go on? It’s just, I’m just sad. I’m sad by the whole thing.

Tara 1:48
Did they at least get to wrap up the story properly.

Kris 1:53
We still have, starting in March, there are six- the six final episodes. So I’m hoping that Emily was able to go and tweak it maybe and give us a final final episode. Or maybe we’ll get like a secret two hour movie in the future. Maybe you know on-set? I don’t know. I hope well-

Tara 2:14
That happened with I mean, not queer at all, but that happened with a sci fi series. Farscape. Did you ever see that?

Kris 2:19
I did not.

Tara 2:20
Oh my god. I loved it. And I’m afraid I’m actually afraid to watch it again. Because I just have a feeling so much of it is not going to hold up. But it was so well loved that I hope I’m getting this right if I hope I’m remembering this right but I’m pretty sure that they so there was definitely there was like a Miniseries or Movie or something like that. That finished it up. But I’m pretty sure it was like wealthy fans that financed it, because they just needed to know how the story ended.

Kris 2:52

Tara 2:53
So I mean if there’s any rich Wynonna Earp fans out there. Right?

Kris 2:58
Somebody said something about Dolly Parton and I thought oh my god, that’s perfect. Have Dolly Parton save Wynonna Earp. It is perfect.

Tara 3:06
Right? I mean, she has helped millions of children with literacy, she was a part of funding one of the most successful COVID vaccines. Why couldn’t she-

Kris 3:15
-save this little awesome show? I know

Tara 3:20
It is. And it reminds me it’s just like with how sad it is, it kind of reminds me of the same thing happening to One Day At A Time as well, because that was also so well loved. Had some, it also had some great queer rep with a daughter and getting to like actually see a teenager come out like that, but in a really positive way on the screen. And it was also brought back because of fan demand. And unfortunately, like it’s just gone. Like, it’s not okay.

Kris 3:48
It’s not okay. I don’t like this. I think you know, maybe, maybe it’s me, I mean, the last thing I recommended, they were either cancelled or got cancelled. So I feel well responsible, but

Tara 4:00
I don’t think you you have that much power. Every show must end, spme day.I mean, we even see that with like soap operas eventually. And even when they’ve been on for decades,

Kris 4:14
I was gonna say some stuff I was are older than I am. So I mean, it goes to show you that there are shows that it’s like the Simpsons, they’ve been on forever.

Tara 4:22

Kris 4:23
True. You know, and, and I and I know that like five seasons is a good run. Somebody mentioned on Twitter, that five seasons of any show is a good run. And that’s true. It’s just you know, everybody just loves the small, you know, group family and want to see it succeed and continuous success. I’m sure all the actors are going to go and get great roles, you know, in the future on different shows and different movies. And I don’t think that anything is going to happen. It’s just like it. We’re just, we’re breaking up a family basically.

Tara 4:52
Yeah, yeah. Which I also think it’s totally fair to grieve that because as much as we know It’s all fake. Like we still- Our brains, like with the way our brains work, don’t know that it’s fake. And it believes that we’re building these connections. And so we have to kind of in some cases go through the same grief process.

Kris 5:11
Especially when you go to conferences and you meet the actors and you know, you talk to them, and they stop and talk to you. And it’s just, you know, it’s just such a good feeling and you want everybody to be happy and be successful and succeed. And it’s just sad when, when something you love so much just ends.

Tara 5:29
Well, I think, in conclusion, fuck capitalism.

Kris 5:34
Exactly. I think you’re right. Okay, so guess what?

Tara 5:42

Kris 5:43
We got our first listener question.

Tara 5:45
Hell Yeah, we did. So Melissa wrote in and she had a question for us. She sent it by Instagram DM. So I guess if you want to send us appropriate DMs that’s okay. This was-

Kris 6:00
Or inappropriate. Don’t be such a prude.

Tara 6:03
Oh, I don’t want to see naked strangers.

Kris 6:09
Just tell us your name.

Tara 6:11
So you know what? Send those DMs to Twitter and Kris’ll check them. So Melissa wrote in and she asked “Tara, in one of your reviews of Spindrift by Anna Burke, you mentioned the butch bottom femme top dynamic, which was the whole reason I read it and loved it. Thanks. Do you have any other recs for books or other media with this dynamic or as Anna Burke put it for queer femme women who aren’t afraid to take control of their own pleasure and the butch bottom slash service tops who love them. You mentioned that you knew of at least one other in your review, but not by name. Also, I read an absolutely loved Last Night at the Telegraph Club by Malinda Lo and would love to hear your collective thoughts”.

So let’s first deal with the last part. I have not read Last Night At The Telegraph Club yet. I’ve been hearing amazing things. It’s on my Kindle. I’m super excited and hoping to start it in the next week or two. So I can definitely come back with some thoughts. Kris, have you have you read this one? Or have you heard of it?

Kris 7:07
I have not. And as far as any other books that have that dynamic? I know that Renee Roman has at least one, she has Stroke of Fate. And then I think she’s working on one as well. I can’t I can’t recall the name of it. And I want to say maybe Nell Stark.

Tara 7:27
I think you may be right. It’s been a super long time since I’ve read it. So Melissa, if we’re wrong, I apologize. I think The Princess Affair might have a bit of that dynamic because it has a femme British princess and an American student who is a butch woman who is shy and adorable. And the princess is not shy, she has been a wild child.

And I believe that dynamic carries through into the bedroom as well, at least for some of it. There is also a follow up short story. I can’t even remember in what short story collection. But anyway, if you’ve ever wanted to read a sex scene in the Oxford University, one of their libraries, you need to go find that story because that is where that is.

In terms of other ones, I’m pretty sure Brenda Murphy has some and the reason I say that there’s one in particular I’m thinking of which I haven’t read, but I’ve heard really good things about and she writes mostly stories with kink. She has a couple of contemporary romances, but she has a series that takes place at a try to think of how to even describe it. It’s one of those like, kink mansions, I guess,

Kris 8:44

Tara 8:45
Something something like that. But anyway, she has a book with two butch bottoms. No, not necessarily both bottoms sorry, two butches. But there’s always some kind of like, from the ones that I’ve read. There’s always some kind of dominant submissive thing going on. So I have to think one of them is likely a bottom. The other one that also springs to mind for me is Party of Three by Sandy Lowe. Now the thing with this book, actually, that’s really interesting is it’s three novellas. But all is part of the same continuous story. So it’s a birthday party in one night, three friends go to this birthday party. Three of them have sex. All three of them have this birthday party. And in the middle novella, specifically, there is the the woman in the friends group that is butch gets together with her best friend’s little sister who she has been in love with, basically forever and ever. And it definitely has that dynamic of the femme going after what she wants and the butch kind of being like, what what’s happening here.

So I found that that was actually my favorite of the three novellas as well. I had fun with all of them, but that was the one that really did it for me. I believed it the most. I also love like the best friend sister dynamic, which is also fabulous. Like Meghan O’Brien has one that’s called Her Best Friend’s Sister.

Kris 10:12

Tara 10:14
Although that’s a recommendation if you’re looking for best friend sister books, not butch bottom femme tops, just for the record, but I also was like, that’s not very many books. So I reached out to some other friends that I know and also got back kind of like the “Huh, no, there’s really not many”.

But what they did they could think of is The Butch and the Beautiful by Kris Ripper. Somebody shared that they think that Radclyffe’s Honor series has some of that energy which is totally possible, but I’ve haven’t read it in about a decade. So I can’t verify myself. And the other one was Lise MacTague’s On Deception’s Edge series. And this is a pro tip. I haven’t read this one. I think it’s just out but her new book Breaking Out apparently also has some of that dynamic. And it’s a hockey romance. So if you like some sports romances to, go check that one.

Kris 11:09
There you go. Yeah, so that’s quite a few. That’s quite a few recommendations.

Tara 11:14
Melissa we hope that you love all of them, or at least a couple. And if anyone else has any questions that you’d be interested in Kris and I answering in a future episode, whether it’s you know, something to do with what we’re reading or watching or if you’re looking for recommendations too just, you know, email it into or like I said, you can DM us on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook. And you can find us on all three of those platforms just by searching for Queerly Recommended.

Kris 11:44
And I get the DMs.

Tara 11:46
You get the Twitter DMs. I get the Instagram DMs. Please do not send naked DMs to Instagram. Send them all on Twitter for Chris. Thirsty thirsty Kris.

Kris 12:00
That’s awesome.

Tara 12:01
All right, Kris. What have you been watching and reading lately?

Kris 12:06
Okay, so for reading, I just, I just started Modern English, by Rachel Spangler, which is Victoria’s book. So I think I read somewhere where 90% of Rachel’s readers have asked for a Victoria book. And so she has, they have given us what we wanted so so I’ve just started that.

Tara 12:32
I actually, this one’s sitting on my Kindle as well. And I am excited about it. Because I have to admit, I was one of the people who also asked for it. When I reviewed Full English. I liked Full English, but for me, Victoria was actually the standout character. And so as occasionally I do a thing when I write reviews where I’m like, I’m just gonna ask, and then if they write that book, that’s amazing. And if they don’t-

Kris 12:59
And you can take credit for it, and say, Look, it’s because I said write this book-

Tara 13:02
Right, so everyone. You’re welcome. You’re welcome for Modern English. I’m kidding. Thank you, Rachel. I’m so excited to read it.

Kris 13:14
Yes, I actually have enjoyed- I started it. So I like the way this starts. You know, and and Rachel is such a good writer.

Tara 13:21
Mm hmm. And has been like, I have so enjoyed seeing the progression from book to book. And I mean, that’s an exciting thing for me, like, finding authors that I love, and seeing them grow over time. So they’re just getting better and better. And Rachel Spangler is definitely in that category for me where the books just- and I enjoy some of their earlier books for sure. Like there’s there’s some that I still love, but just like the sheer mastery of the craft over time. So I think that’s part of what has me so excited by this one as well, like, right at Victoria, by an author who’s getting better with each book.

Kris 14:07
Exactly. And, you know, I agree, I’ve read early stuff by Rachel and for sure, there is now a finesse to their writing, and I can definitely tell. And I don’t know if it’s just a calming thing I can I can tell that there’s just a calm and more of a calmness about them. And so I it comes across through the writing when I read it. So anyway, I’m going to have a shit ton of fun reading this so I’m excited. So that’s what I’m reading.

Tara 14:39
Excellent. And what are you watching?

Kris 14:42
So here’s, here’s the thing, so I’m watching I- this is so hard because you know we’re so used to binge watching everything all the time. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So what I have been watching on TV, I’ve been watching 911 but not just 911 But also 911, Lone Star, two different shows. But they did a crossover last week, which was kind of fun. So let me tell you why. So 911 has Angela Bassett. And I have this massive crush on Angela Bassett.

Tara 15:14
Who doesn’t?

Kris 15:14
Forever and always. And so this is interesting. So because 911 has queer representation, Angela Basset’s ex-husband is gay, and divorces her and gets together with his lover. And then there’s a there’s also a lesbian character. And these are pretty big roles if they’re not just like, oh, the lesbian, you know, paramedic or whatever. It’s not that they have like solid roles in this series. And so yeah, I was like, cool. And then they started they created after the first after I think that quote unquote, success of 911 they have a Texas version. 911 Lone Star.

Tara 15:52
Mm hmm.

Kris 15:53
And truly, if you want diversity, this show is for you. If you can get past Rob Lowe, which is tough. I know. But the series isn’t bad. There’s there’s a transgender firefighter, gay firefighter, a Muslim woman fire fire, I can’t even fire fire fire, fire fighter. And then there’s a Texas a huge, big country, the good old boy, Texas hat, and he’s married to a really sweet and adorable black woman. So there’s so much diversity in that series. And you’re like, how are we ever going to get to the part where we fight fires? But they do. You know, there’s just a lot going on. It’s like a soap opera. I mean, like anything else, you get to know the characters and they have struggles and like any other show anymore that is on TV. So I watched those. I watched those during the week. And yeah/ So what about you? How is your Hades run going?

Tara 16:46
Well, I finished it.

Kris 16:49
(audible and dramatic gasp)

Tara 16:50
It’s over. Except they’re so smart. The way they made this game it’s never really over. So I beat Hades 10 times, and I got the epilogue. And it was so beautiful. Honestly, the writing i think is the thing that blows me away so much in this game. The other thing is that it’s part of a genre of games, I’m gonna get this, if I get this wrong, please forgive me, there’s gonna be some gamer that’s like, “Fuck you. That’s not what it’s called.” I think it’s called roguelike. And then within that, there’s also something called roguelite. But basically, the idea is like, you go through, and when you when you die, you die and you lose all your shit. And you have to start over again. But the way they do it in this game, it makes it okay. Because there are certain things that you can pick up to make you stronger each time. And how that ties in with the overall storytelling is so brilliant. And I haven’t gotten it. And sorry, I’m stumbling, because I’m so excited. It’s like what if I say four things at once. And you can’t actually do that. That’s not possible, you just end up going to- (incoherent sounds) right? Very good. Very good, Tara, people will love to hear that.

But you get to keep playing. So there, there is something written into the story itself so that it makes sense that you keep going through all of the dungeons and beating Hades at the end. And so there are things that I’m still trying to do, including pursue the love interest. And the thing that I think is interesting is that you can pursue all three if you like. So there’s Dusa, which is a Medusa, there’s Megaera, who is one of the three furys and there’s Thanatos, who can be your gay boyfriend. And it’s kind of hinted at that you’ve been involved with Thanatos and Megaera in the past. And so that’s kind of what I’m doing next. And yes, Zagreus is going to be a boyfriend to everybody, because why not? But now I’m just looking to see like, what other queer games I can find. And I found one that I absolutely adore. And that’s all I’m gonna say about it, because I want to leave everybody hanging in anticipation, because it’s going to be my big recommendation next episode.

Kris 19:02
Oh, okay. And that’s where your Switch, right? It’s for the Nintendo Switch? It’s probably on all of them. Maybe?

Tara 19:10
No, it’s probably on Steam. But it’s not- I don’t think it’s on the on PlayStation or Xbox. So it’s a it’s a very queer inclusive dating sim that I’m super excited about. So if that’s your jam, come on back in two weeks and you’ll hear me gush about that game because I love it so much. But what I wanted to do was say, again, if anyone actually has any queer gaming recommendations, especially for the Nintendo Switch, please send them my way. If it’s a Steam exclusive unfortunately, I’m just not gonna play it. I could play something on the Xbox or Playstation because we do have both of those here but like Switch is kind of where I’m at these days. So if you have recommendations for me, please send them in to because I want to hear them. I will try them out. And if I love them, I will talk about them on a future episode.

And then the other thing that I wanted to mention, it’s not something I’m reading right now. But a book that I absolutely adored last year, one of my favorite books, You Should See Me A Crown by Leah Johnson was recently named a Stonewall Honor Book by the American Library Association. So I just wanted to give a shout out to that book because it’s so freakin good. It’s it’s a contemporary young adult book, it has a romantic element to it. I don’t know if I would call it a romance per se.

But the the romantic element is, is definitely strong. But the premise is that Liz Lighty is a black girl in high school in a small town in Indiana, and she wants to go to this particular college, she doesn’t quite have enough money. And she’s like, “Oh, shit, what am I going to do?” So she and her brother are being raised by their grandparents. And she’s afraid that if her grandparents find out about the financial shortfall, like it looks like she’s not going to get a scholarship that she’s supposed to get or something like that. So she’s afraid that if they find out about that, that they’re going to sell the house. And that’s not something that she wants, you know, that would be-

Kris 21:09

Tara 21:09
It feels like too big a sacrifice. She’s super shy. She’s very much about like, keeping herself out of sight away from bullying. And I can’t remember if it’s her brother or her friend, but basically says, “Look, you need to run for prom queen. Because the people that get to be prom king and queen actually get scholarships, like they get, they get money that they can put towards college, and it would be enough to cover that shortfall”. And so it’s this like shy girl putting herself out there in a way that she absolutely hates. But she’s doing it kind of for all the right reasons. And what happens and the girl that she falls in love with along the way. And that is told to the first person from Liz’s perspective, she’s so smart and funny and lovely. And I just adored her. This book made me cry in a couple of times. Like I just want it to be made into a movie. Like I want Netflix to make it into a movie specifically because I feel like they’ve been doing the best job of making clear movies lately that you can feel good about, like that actually have a happy ending and not you know, you’re gonna go want to kill yourself when it’s done because it’s so sad. But I just like I’m so excited that so excited that it got this award because I just think this book deserves all the things and if you haven’t read it yet, I absolutely. Like just go check it out.It’s super, super good.

Kris 22:35
Okay, good. So what is your big recommendation for us this week?

Tara 22:40
All right so this week, I’m going to recommend a super fun lesbian romance that I just finished a couple of days ago, and it is Hotel Queens by Lee Winter. Have you heard of this one?

Kris 22:51
Of course.

Tara 22:52
Right? Everybody’s been talking about it.

Kris 22:53
Yes, I know. Yes.

Tara 22:55
So, I’m going to start with the blurb, which says over one long night at a bar in Las Vegas, two powerful hotel executives meet, flirt, and challenge each other having no clue they’re rivals after the same dream deal. Brilliant Ice Queen Amelia Duxton is a hotel vice president who thrives on control, truth, and efficiency. She’s in no mood for love or the mess it brings. All she wants us to buy the coveted Mayfair Palace, a massive deal that can help her land the CEO job in her family’s hotel empire. Fiery Kai Fisher is charming and chaotic and renowned for closing ambitious deals. Her sights are set on snatching the Mayfair Palace out from under the nose of her hated arch rivals, the Duxton family. But when secrets emerge and everything starts to fall apart, how can either the warring women win, especially when they’ve just met through match?

This book is a lot of fun. I had a great time reading it. Although full disclosure, I actually read the first probably quarter and then put it down because I had my end of year burnout out as usual in December. And so I decided to just start it over again. A couple like about a week ago. And I’m so glad I did because I picked it up again and then I just I didn’t want to put it down I had to because you know sleep and family and work and all those things. But I definitely stayed up way too late a few days ago. Because especially when I got to kind of like the middle, because there is a mystery that kind of sits at the center of it and you don’t even know it at first because at first it just comes across as like okay so it’s like an enemies to lovers lesbian romance.

Cool, okay, I’ve read these I know what to expect from these and then I was like, “Oh shit, there’s something else happening. And they’re gonna have to figure it out”. And that just like I was hooked from everything. Like every word from that moment on, but even then I was also really caught by the first chapter.

Kris 25:07

Tara 25:08
Because the first chapter is split, like the book goes back and forth between the two perspectives. And that’s true the first chapter as well, where we see we have, like a scene or two from each of them, that really lays out exactly who they are, as they go into meeting each other and falling in love. And so for Kai, she’s going into work. It’s very, very early in the morning, she has her coffee. She’s about to hit the gym. And as she’s, I think she’s talking to the man who works at the door. And there’s this asshole bike messenger who’s been like terrorizing the neighborhood. And he clips her so that she scratches her very expensive watch. And she whips her coffee his back, so that she knocks him off his bike. And I was like, well, that’s not something you read about every day in lesfic. Oh, okay. And then what she continues to do to him in that scene, I was like, “Oh, that’s…”

Kris 26:11
Yeah, I like it when a book when a book starts off strong, like .Like, there’s it drops, you literally drops you right into a moment, that does pick up the the character’s personality right away.

Tara 26:23
Mm hmm.

Kris 26:24
And this doesn’t right away, say, you know, exactly, okay, this is what’s gonna happen.

Tara 26:28
Mm hmm. And then it does the same thing for Amelia, where I see Amelia firing somebody who I think he runs procurement for the- So she runs the European division of Duxton Hotels, and I believe he runs procurement for the European division. And she figured out that this guy had been fudging the numbers and basically embezzled, like a couple 100,000 euros or something like that, like, a lot of money. And you’re sort of going through and it’s like, “Okay, he’s being fired. Oh, he’s gonna be arrested. And then you find out that he is her cousin”.

Kris 27:02

Tara 27:03
And I loved it so much, because it really showed how, not just no nonsense she is, but also, how much integrity matters to her how that is such a core part, like a fundamental part of who she is as a person. And where other people might say, well, he’s in the family, let’s keep it quiet. And she’s like, “No, no, that messes with my integrity. That’s my reputation that gets compromised if anybody finds out about this. Fuck you. You’re the embezeller. You’re the one with a gambling problem”. And I just I kind of like, I love that. And the thing with this is that yes, it is an enemies to lovers, but it is also what I would say almost like the ultimate in opposites attract, because they are just so different.

And where Amelia will never compromise who she is, she will always show up exactly as herself as her most authentic self, even though she knows so many people don’t like it. Kai talks about how she creates optimal experiences for other people. That’s why she’s so good at her job. She works for this other hotel chain called The Grand Millennium. And she is known in the industry as “the closer”, she closes any deal she wants, she is able to go in and she is able to, you know, snatch hotels from other like she is able to win bidding wars. And she does this by figuring out what the other person wants in an interaction and delivering it to them. So she’s kind of that ultimate chameleon. And I think the thing that I especially loved about that and seeing them as they get together because they definitely have chemistry, like their chemistry is just unreal, in this in the story, but seeing how those two personalities come together, and what they’re able to do for each other, and how that changes. I don’t that it’s necessarily going to change the way they operate with other people. But it definitely changes the way they operate with each other.

And in some ways, like Kai gives Amelia the ability to be stronger than she knows that she can. And Kai learns how to be, she learns that that when she’s with Amelia, she can’t be anything other than authentic. But that’s actually the only way and I it just it worked for me so well. And there was also some things that just, like, cracked me up made me laugh so hard. I’m gonna find this one. It’s a tiny quote. But this was the one that I actually like, it’s past midnight. I’m in bed reading this and I’m laughing out loud. So there’s a side character in the story who is a sex worker and she basically constantly she just always has a room at the hotel. I think she might just live at the hotel and she delivers sort of the like, executive woman dom experience for people who want that. And so she runs into them near the end and sort of hits on Amelia, a little bit, which she’s sort of done throughout the story.

And Kai says, “Am I jealous of the MILF sex goddess with eyes that roam all over you as she appreciates the promised land as much as I do. And this is the part that got me Amelia wondered what a MILF was.” And of course Amelia wondered what a MILF was. How would she know? She wouldn’t know.

That would be beneath her. She wouldn’t consume media it was in she doesn’t have social media accounts. She is like the best grownup ever. And so I just read that and I was like, “Okay, well, you’re going to learn? You’re going to find out.” So yes, that is my recommendation for this week. So if for people that like romances, especially if you like opposites attract romances, enemies to lovers romances, romances with a little bit of mystery to them. I mean, I wouldn’t say that this is a mystery. It’s just like, there is a central problem that has to be figured out. And that the other thing I like is that that is what drives a lot of the conflict. And so it’s not this isn’t, this isn’t going to be one of those books, where there’s like, a big old breakup, and a massive makeup with a grovel. And, uh, I don’t know. Right, right. Right. And that worked very well, for me. I really, really liked that. So if that’s your like, if that’s something that you like, as well, going get it because it’s worth it.

Kris 31:42

Tara 31:44
So Kris, what is your recommendation this week?

Kris 31:49
Okay, so this week, I have two recommendations, and both are movies. One is a documentary and because it was so goddamn sad. I had to quickly watch another movie right after that. So the first thing I watched was a documentary back in 2014, and it’s called L Word Mississippi: Hate the Sin. And its director Lauren Lazin. But the cool thing is the executive producer on this is Ilene Chaiken. And we know her cause she did all The L Word series, the original the real L Word. And then The L Word Q, Generation Q. And she also is executive producer of Handmaid’s Tale. So she has a lot of- I knew it was gonna be good, because, you know, she’s a well known name. And, and I actually picked this documentary, also because my ex girlfriend was from Mississippi. And I actually visited, I traveled down to Mississippi with her to visit her family one time, and I was scared shitless.

Tara 33:02

Kris 33:03
Yeah. So even though her family didn’t kill me-

Tara 33:06
Uh huh.

Kris 33:07
I knew that my body could easily be, like, discarded in their woods, because they lived in this tiny little small town in the middle of nowhere with like, you know, like 2000 acres of land, you know, that’s like, protected arbor I could have.

Tara 33:21
No one would have missed you.

Kris 33:23
Right. Exactly. Well, my parents would have missed me, but

No one in that town.

Right, that’s true. Nobody in the town. But um, so anyway, so with this, here’s the blurb for the documentary.

Tara 33:34
Mm hmm.

Kris 33:35
A provocative and moving document documentary, exploring the lives of gay women through living in the conservative religious Deep South and the unique hardships, bigotry, bullying, sexism and racism they endure. So it was interesting, because it follows several couples. And it also follows a woman, a former quote unquote, former lesbian named Rene.

Yeah, so it starts off, you know, and it’s, it’s really interesting, because like, especially after going through the elections, and the whole Trump and the whole religious take on the election, it was, it probably impacted me more watching it after the elections than had I seen it in 2014. It focuses on how churches play a huge part in the lives and the way of life in the Deep South. And according to several of the pastors they interviewed, you know, homosexual, homosexuals are deranged, their minds aren’t working properly, and others compared being gay to being murderers. They’re all, they’re all sin. So if you’re gay, you’re just as bad as murderer. And, you know, sin is a sin in their eyes.

So, but it was interesting because I wanted to see you know, why people stayed in the why when it’s just so awful And it sounds horrible, like you fear for your life, a lot of you know, this a small rural cities and and Mississippi, not necessarily Jackson and places like that, but I’m sure, I’m sure you know, they have their problems too. But it was just it was really, the whole thing was interesting, you have a couple that you know, they’re- one is transitioning, and the other doesn’t know how to feel about it. And then you just have a bi racial couple. And then you have two people who try to start a program to actually do successfully start The Dandelion Project, which is getting Christian, the Christian community, the LGBT Christian community together, that it’s okay to be gay. And so this Dandelion Project they encouraglike all different cities, you know, people who are interested in making that connection happen to to go ahead and start it in your own city. And if you’re, you know, in religion that deep and you want to have a place for for the LGBT community, then you start The Dandelion Project.

So that’s a whole different thing. But what I thought was a really fascinating part to this documentary is that they have the part of a lot of these lesbians, and gay people are part of a family, like a literal family, not like your own family, but you have a family that you share a similar you have a gay name, you have your birth name, and you have a gay name, so that you have kind of like protection, and I don’t want to really call it a gang. But it’s like you have you have like, I think the L’Oreal or one and it’s just so interesting, all the different names. You have, like if your family, if your birth family, like your mom and your dad don’t come just like don’t attend anything, like your wedding or something, then your, your gay family will show up and support you. And it’s really interesting, because I’m like, “Where’s my gay family here in Kansas City?” You know, it just it seemed like such a very good idea. Like, it’s served as, you know, like, protection. Just in numbers, feeling safe. You know, it wasn’t like, let’s go like, you know, kill people and slash tires, or anything like that. It was a strictly like, you know, safety and numbers type thing. And it was really interesting.

The character, the character, I’m sorry, the person Rene, she was praying the gay away, she just thought it was the devil. And it was just really sad to watch her life. She had all these decisions, you know, for 46 years, she considered herself a lesbian, she always thought, you know, a really butch lesbian, she thought she was a man. The devil gave her all these horrible ideas. And so she joined the church and is trying really hard to pray the gay away and her son happens to be gay. So I just it was just so sad. I just kind of ended and I actually after it was over, I started Googling, you know, what happened to the cast members of – I say cast members it’s not really cast members, you know, documentary – what happened to them? Where are they now type thing. And there really wasn’t a lot of information online about them. I was curious to see if Rene decided to accept who she is or not. And it was just, it was just kind of sad. And I thought I feel so bad that in this day and age, and even though it was only 2014. You know, it was still pretty a progressive time, I think. And-

More progressive than what I would say much more progressive than 2016 to 2020. Because right, that was that. I mean, that was almost like the time that the Trump administration was pulling everyone back away from.

Mm hmm.

Tara 38:44
So would you say like, overall, like was was it good? Like, is it something you think we should check out or?

Kris 38:52
Yeah, I think so. And that’s why I’m recommending it, because I need people to see that. You know, and it’s interesting, because when I started writing lesfic, my editor is in her 30s at the time, she was maybe like late 20s, you know, like 12 I always joke that she’s 12. And she has no concept of hate when it comes to being gay. She lives in California, you know, she’s younger, so she doesn’t have to worry about fearing for her life or you know, like, it’s okay that she holds her wife’s hand in public and stuff like that. There’s not you know, she’s had she has this, this and it’s wonderful that she has this but at the same time, I think it’s important to know that not everybody has that not everybody has the ability to to feel safe or and and the thing that gets me it’s just it’s so ridiculous that people use religion.

Like they don’t care about you at all, but they’ll throw religion at you like, “Oh, we need to save you, you know, you don’t even know my name. You know, what do you mean? You want to save me for what?” So it’s just it’s very interesting because it’s important to know that there are still people who struggle that are scared. They don’t want to move or they want to stay there in smaller communities to rally, to say, “Hey, you know what, we’re here for you. We’re going to stay here for you.” Because if every if all the gay people leave the city, then the people who are up and coming and you know, don’t understand or don’t know yet, it’s going to be super hard for them to come out. And I think it’s this documentary was was important for that reason just to kind of educate that, that it still goes on. And even though we’re, you know, it still goes on.

Tara 40:28
Mm hmm. No, that’s absolutely true. I mean, that sounds not exactly the same. It sounds a little worse than the type of churches that I grew up in. But I would say like, adjacent, like, kind of that they’re like that step up from. So it wasn’t necessarily talked about as a mental illness thing, but it definitely, I know, in my experience, was, it was not okay. Like queerness of any kind was absolutely not okay. And I agree with you. Like, it’s really important. And I kind of wonder if I would have had access to queer community where I grew up, would I have been able to recognize my own queerness sooner?

Kris 41:06
Yeah, exactly.

Tara 41:07
And I mean, that’s, that’s always a bit of a rough game to play, because I don’t think I would necessarily want to, like, I would still want to be married to the same person I’m married to, and I would never give up my kids for anything. And, you know, like, I like I love my family as it is. And so that’s the what if game doesn’t really do anybody any favors sometimes.

Kris 41:27

Tara 41:28
But it would have been nice, I think to at least have accepted that part of myself a lot sooner rather than continue to compartmentalize it because I can like reflecting back, see, “Oh, that’s the thing that’s always been there. I just didn’t want to look at it for a significant portion of my life”. So yeah, I think that’s fantastic that that’s there. Because you’re right. There’s so many people that think, well, we have marriage. What What else? Like we have it all now and it’s like, really?

Kris 41:58
Not really.

Tara 42:00
Right, like, so you said you had a happier movie, right?

Kris 42:04
So after that, I said, Okay, I gotta find something fun. So I needed a white fluffy gay movie and I watched The 10 Year Plan. And so the the quick blurb is meet Miles and Brody breast friends for…. breast. Yeah, where’s my mind. Um meet Miles and Brody best friends and total opposites. Miles is a hopeless romantic looking for Mr. Right. Brody is a sexy player on the hunt for Mr. Right now. These two friends make a plan that they’ll be together if both of them are still single in a decade. Nearly 10 years later, and still alone, both friends will do whatever it takes to avoid becoming a couple. So it’s super cheesy. It’s like Hallmark level cheese. And I love cheese. So you know, Miles is kind of person who wants to u haul after the first day he like scares dates away after the first day. Like, he’s got an outline of everything. Here’s what we’re gonna do. This is how we’re gonna get married. These are flowers. So he’s just like, he’s overwhelming. And Brody is the the guy who, you know, does the Tinder dates, and he doesn’t want. He’s the cop and he doesn’t want a relationship. That’s really interesting. And it’s cute. It’s fun. It’s it’s very low angst. And I guess a total cheesy, and I needed that. So I recommend it just for like the Hallmark gay movie that you need that you didn’t think you needed. But you really do.

Tara 43:31
That’s adorable. What platform did you watch it on?

Kris 43:34
I did it on? I think it was 2B.

Tara 43:39
I don’t know what that is. I’ll just see if it’s on something that’s available in Canada.

Kris 43:43
This remote and I and I just like hit the button. And I’m like, “LGBT movies”. And it gives me all these options. So.

Tara 43:52

Kris 43:52
So it’s through my cable, but it’ll hook in through different platforms. Like whether it’s prime or Netflix or Hulu, it’ll just bring me right to it. So I just kind of review what what what movies I want to see or what what reads the best. And I’m like, “Oh, they’re both cute. Let’s watch this.” And it was filmed well, you could tell that it wasn’t like some, you know, second year film student quality movie, it was actually you know, it felt like true Hallmark movie.

Tara 44:20
What do you mean that never happens with queer movies.

Kris 44:25
I’m gonna make a queer movie with my iPhone.

Tara 44:31
Yeah, you probably could have it as long as you put Molly in it. I think everybody would show up or watch it like that’s why

Kris 44:37
Oh, for sure.

Tara 44:39
Right, make her a star.

Kris 44:43

Tara 44:45
So I think that’s all for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. If you’ve enjoyed the show, if you can just please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you’ve really enjoyed the show, we would love it if you would consider leaving a review on Apple podcasts because you know reviews help other people discover shows that they might love.

Kris 45:03
Yes. And if you want to connect with us on your favorite social media sites, just search for @queerlyrecommended on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, or email us at podcast That’s it.

Tara 45:19
Goodbye everybody.

Kris 45:16

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